Studio Recording

Sound card

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nancy

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Opening post by nancy

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Do you think the Motu 4 pre hybrid could be valid if I wanted to record the piano with at least 3 microphones?

Based on ten thousand readings I've done these past few days in the field of audiophilia (now I have a bit of confusion in my head), I would have selected it as the most suitable, having good preamplifiers, 4 phantom mic inputs... USB connection... two headphone jacks (these four are not indispensable)... I wouldn't want to get something excessively basic but also not oversized for me... staying within a "home" budget!

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Reply 2 by giovannip

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I'm sorry Nancy, I can't help you wait a little longer.. many are surely still on vacation.

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Reply 4 by Thesimon

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The Motu is a great interface, not professional but you can do beautiful things with it. If you want a professional one you have to go with Apogee, but for 4 microphone inputs it costs 1600 euros.

For the piano, 3 microphones work very well. One large capsule on the tail and two in AB on the sides. The distance depends on what you need to record.

In post-production, you will then have to realign the phases if you see that you are getting too much cancellation.

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Reply 5 by nancy

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Thank you Simone. ..I would very much like to learn all these beautiful little things. I didn't think I would ever become interested in these gems, but instead, even without claiming to become a sound technician (which is a skill that cannot be improvised), I find myself very curious. I would like to reach the point of making at least some good recordings. Of course, the budget is limiting.....but if the MOTU is also acceptable, I'll choose that one.....as soon as my piggy bank is full, I'll get it. For now, two Rode NT5s are supposed to arrive for me, and then I will get the large capsule one for the tail, even though the issue of phase worries me!

Thanks again!

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Reply 6 by nancy

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TheSimon wrote:

The Motu is an excellent interface, not professional but you can do great things with it. If you want a professional one you have to go with Apogee, but for 4 mic inputs it costs 1600 euros.

For the piano, 3 microphones work perfectly fine. One large capsule on the tail and two in AB at the sides. The distance depends on what you need to record.

In post-production, you will then have to realign the phases if you see that you are getting too much cancellation.

I was thinking one thing.... since mine is 186 cm, using this microphone configuration I shouldn't have too many problems.... I mean, we aren't talking about a very long tail, so by not distancing them too much, the microphone recordings should remain in phase. In any case, I have the major limitation of the room size because the piano is not in a large hall, and therefore the one at the tail can be at most one and a half meters from the end of the tail... then there's the wall.

The third microphone must be omnidirectional... large capsule, right??.... does it clash with the cardioids in AB regarding timbre or anything else?

I've already experimented with the H4n that by getting closer and being inside the soundboard, the attack of the sound is too aggressive for my repertoire (always classical.... Franck, Chopin... Albeniz... Bach et simila).....

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Reply 7 by Thesimon

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Phase problems are not due to the size of the piano but to the different distances of the microphones (small capsule pair and large capsule) from the sound source.

The large capsule captures low frequencies better and is placed at the tail specifically for this purpose. At the tail, high frequencies, which are very directional, are less noticeable, and a mostly dark spectrum is captured (which is what the small capsule lacks).

The h4n is a toy microphone by design; it is not made for studio recordings but to capture decent audio "on the fly," however, you conveyed the idea well. Obviously, if you move the microphones closer to the soundboard, you will hear more of the effect of the hammer hitting the string. These are things that can be partially corrected using a compressor with a very fast attack, but if you have the chance to move the microphones further away, even better. The gold standard in recording is to try to manipulate as little as possible in post-production. The less you manipulate, the better the capture.

When the microphones are moved closer, the AB technique no longer makes much sense because they no longer create spatiality if they are in the immediate vicinity of the strings. In that case, an XY technique with reverse panning is better. Capsules between 90 and 135 degrees.

However, for classical music, you need to stay quite far away. Close miking and XY are more suitable for Jazz piano.

Regarding the large capsule at the tail, evaluate whether to place it just above the soundboard line or right under the instrument, aiming at the soundboard from underneath. It depends on the microphone you use and its frequency response. With the Neumann U87, if I placed it underneath, the bass came out too muddy; conversely, with a tube CAD 8000, I had to keep it underneath because, given the bass strings, it would blow out too much. You must experiment and, above all, evaluate distances. With my microphones, I now know how to behave because I know them; with other microphones, the distances and positions are all to be experimented with, while still remaining in AB for the small capsule and using a microphone at the tail for the large capsule.

Once you know the basic positions, experimenting with distances requires time and trial after trial, but in the end, you will see that you find the right positioning.

Consider that much of the work is done by the room, especially in classical music. In the great recordings you hear, there is a lot of room; therefore, if you record in a small environment, you cannot expect results like those on a record, although you can tweak it in post-production. To make records, you need microphones costing 2,000-4,000 euros each, concert halls, and an entire professional audio chain that costs thousands of euros, but this does not mean you cannot achieve more than acceptable results even with more modest equipment.

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Reply 8 by nancy

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So, to avoid phase shifts, the ideal thing would be to maintain the same distance from the source with the one in the rear as the pair has, trying out the right height to get a sound as clean as possible... it will be fun to do the tests. As for using a mic of a different brand than the pair for the one in the rear, it doesn't matter... so I am not obliged to get the Rode NT2A, I could also choose an AT 4050 (Neumann or DPA are a bit too expensive)!!

Thanks Simone. ...I am learning a lot of things thanks to you

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