Stockhausen - Klavierstuck

Absolutely not, I graduated using acoustic instruments. I wouldn't want Ludovica to think that I prefer digital over acoustic. I am the first to say that digital will never reach acoustic. I say this in my YouTube video tutorials and I have always maintained it here in the forum and also in an article on my personal website blog. The main reason is that the former belongs to the set of discrete definitions and the latter to the set of continuous definitions. This definition alone is enough to demonstrate the sonic inferiority of digital and its impossibility of reaching acoustic. However, let us remember that even this interpretation by Pollini is a digital capture, and there would be an infinity of considerations to make that, if you are interested, we can examine: the conversion of an analog signal to digital, vibrating bodies, microphone membranes, preamps, ad/da etc. etc. But I don't want to bore you. Perhaps we will talk about it if you want and if the subject interests you. I will perform this test, but it requires time that I do not have at the moment, but I promise you we will do it...

...even if it is out of repertoire, it could be a nice encore for your concerts

TheSimon wrote:

If you want, I'll open a post and we can do a test... I'll post acoustic and digital recordings and whoever wants to can say which is the acoustic one and which is the digital one.

It would be so much fun... I'm in, not to challenge you, but to challenge my own ear.

But come on... I don't want to snitch on anyone, I just think it's something fun to do and interesting at the same time

Rotore wrote:

It is probably a problem you need to face, as I was saying, by taking a listening journey ... perhaps guided.

It could start from here:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiEhzSLTrceI&v=iEhzSLTrceI&gl=IT

Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

Great Stockhausen!!! I love him. A genius in my opinion. What do you think of "Hymnen" and his other similar works?

Open content (youtube)

sisifo1987 wrote:

Well, pianist is a big word!! my studies of the piano anthology are in the early stages.

In the past I tried to listen to some Liszt and it's not too bad, but the sense of suspension without any point of reference bothers me while listening. I have a sense of strange suffering ...anyway thanks for the advice.

...try with:

Karlheinz Stockhausen - Tierkreis, for piano

Open content (youtube)

GlANFRANCO wrote:

What do you think of "Hymnen" and his other similar works

Isn't this part of the electronic music repertoire?

@Rotore thanks, I listened to it.

Tell me one thing, do you usually listen to this music? what emotion does it give you?? I am asking you these questions because my feeling while listening to this track is one of complete emotional indifference.

sisifo1987 wrote:

@Rotore thanks, I listened to it.

Tell me one thing, do you usually listen to this music? what emotion does it give you?? I am asking you these questions because my feeling while listening to this piece is one of complete emotional indifference.

... it's been about a year since I've been going all out, thanks to the many stimuli from various forum members; the word emotion is either too specific, or too vague, or not enough.

I agree with those who say that the fact that it leaves you indifferent cannot be a parameter for evaluation... there are those who cannot stand Mozart, those who cannot stand Chopin ... so we are in the realm of extreme subjectivity.

Listen... listen and listen... it is music that in the end digs inside, maybe not in the way you think or want to seek it

Rotore wrote:

I agree with those who say that the fact that it leaves you indifferent cannot be a parameter for evaluation...

What is the parameter for evaluation (or yours)?

Rotore wrote:

Listen... listen and listen... it is music that in the end digs inside, maybe not in the way you think or want to seek

What do you mean by 'digs inside'? Could I feel that as the music plays it enters me, provoking pleasant sensations, or am I off track?

It could be that the "objective sensation" is something I already feel and either I don't notice it, or it is not what I am looking for in music.

Tonight in Florence, Stockhausen's klavierstucke

An event that passed almost unnoticed, I only heard about it by chance yesterday.

At the Accademia gallery, a pianist will attempt the performance of the first 11 klavierstucke by Stockhausen.

Free admission.

Another gem found on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1GimtSy_AI&list=PL781881DB36D8418A&index=7&feature=plpp_video

Open content (youtube)

Tiger wrote:

How many pianists have studied or know this work?

Pollini - Stockhausen - Klavierstück IX (Live 2002)

I find them very innovative in the instrumental gesture, look at the expressions on Pollini's face... hunting for sonorities...

Fascinating, can someone delve deeper into the subject?

I also found this version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny8ZXXRBIns

Open content (youtube)

Tiger wrote:

I agree, if you (or those interested) were to suggest an important and more recent piece for piano, what would you think of?

Another important piece for piano is Boulez's third sonata

Open content (youtube)

Pio wrote:

can someone go deeper into this topic?

il Klavierstücke IX (1956), the first aleatory work, is one of the most famous pieces in the contemporary piano repertoire (along with Boulez's Third Sonata... great Xenakis (user)), a moving network of possibilities in which choices are made, like a map of a city, in which a path defined by arrows guides the performer to the choice of cells, or formants. In Klavierstücke IX we find cells, nineteen of them, irregularly distributed on a large format sheet, and therefore all visible to the pianist: “The musician looks unintentionally at the sheet and begins with the group they see first; they play it choosing at will the speed, basic intensity, and type of attack”. When the first group is finished, they read the following indications regarding speed, basic intensity, and type of attack, then turn their gaze unintentionally to another group and play it according to those three indications. The indication ‘to turn one's gaze unintentionally from group to group’ means that the musician must never link certain groups together or skip others” (Preface to the score). Contrary to Boulez's Sonata, no particular concatenation is mandatory, and the piece is conceived as a variable path within a “whole”, in the same way a composer has explored the inner life of a sound: “If I conceive a piece constructed exactly as sound is organized, it will naturally follow that the elements composing the piece can be permuted, changed, turned upside down, without the character of the piece being modified”.

Given that I had missed the topic

Pio wrote:

Stifling

sisifo1987 wrote:

i don't really like it, it doesn't convey anything to me.

Two completely contrasting opinions

sisifo1987 wrote:

Do you have any advice on how to learn to appreciate it??

As already stated, I can say that perhaps one could start by taking a step back and thinking about the Klavierstücke I-IV (1952-1953). The first Klavierstück, for example, is based on the process of composition by groups. By group, Stockhausen means “a determined number of sounds linked by means of proportions related to a superior empirical quality […]. We concentrate our listening on the whole and receive a global impression from it, in which the details are sufficiently distinct so that no relationship is established that is more important than another (from which, moreover, the large intervals and the difference of elements in a minimum space-time derive)”.

It is what the composer defines as “structural listening and composition”. Because “what remains in the memory is the way in which the sounds are put together and how they appear in the group, rather than as far as the order of the particular, the single interval, or the isolated temporal relationship is concerned. Everything that is composed must, if possible, participate on an equal footing in the formal process; nothing must predominate, such as a melody we might hum or a rhythm we might tap […]: For the same reason, intervals and chords are kept in suspense and at a similar degree of effectiveness”.

Consequently, the sound image will be imprinted, Laocoönian-style, into our perception in a much more pregnant way “as a structural impression”.

In my opinion, this is the key to interpretation; one cannot approach these pieces by looking for those elements that are effectively denied and typical of other aesthetics. One must immerse oneself in this (at the time or for us) new world, and the best way, in my opinion, is also to try playing these pieces—playing them while trying to convey something, to indeed imprint this initial sound image and its modifications… only then will we experience pleasure as well.

Just so we understand each other, one cannot go to Japan expecting to hear works that base their development on speculation; we will probably hear works based on circularity.

Someone was talking about Chopin, the prelude op 28 no. 4. Who hasn't studied it or tried to mess around with it? We all know that there, the engine is certainly not Stockhausen-esque sonorities, but if the performer does not invest a little time in caring for every repetition, a piece of just a few seconds risks becoming tedious after 3 bars.

Studying this piece (still by Chopin, I mean), especially at the beginning, means investing several hours to try to give meaning, a charm (great Pio) to those chords that would otherwise be nonsense. Returning for a moment to Stockhausen's Klavierstücke, one should put in the same passion… only then would we see benefits. In the end, it is about maturing a new way of listening; once that is done… the rest will be easy.

Thanks Frank, unfortunately I can only give you one like