Suzuki Method, shall we talk about it?

I don't even know the Suzuki method myself, but I am curious if anyone knows it....

Reading Suzuki, this discussion immediately came to mind

www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1307-talento-e-genetica

The Suzuki method is based, as also reported in the article, on learning by simulation. In short, the teacher plays some notes and the student must try to repeat what the teacher has done by copying their posture, movements, etc., etc.

I do not consider myself particularly fond of these repetition methods by simulation because they seriously risk depersonalizing the student and furthermore are not based on personalized learning that takes into account one's own genetics, one's own personality, one's own intelligence and, lastly but not least in importance, one's own autonomy. It is true that immediately the student is placed within a musical landscape, but it is equally true that this could cause damage in the future. In general, I am always against any type of attempt to copy something from someone because by doing so, one will never succeed in finding one's own Self, whether this be linked to music or to art in general.

TheSimon wrote:

The Suzuki method is based, as also reported in the article, on learning by simulation. In short, the teacher plays some notes and the student must try to repeat what the teacher has done by copying their posture, movements, etc. etc.

Let's say it is suitable for 5-year-olds

Just between us, I would ban it... We need to train musicians, not automata. Computers play by imitation, we are human beings... They are miles ahead and we must not forget it!

It must also be said that the Suzuki method has worked miracles for some children. You hear 6-year-olds playing things typically played by eighth-year students. Perhaps some credit should be given to this method.

Examples are always the best things for clarifying a concept due to the exemplification that follows.

Let us suppose, then, that I am a civil engineer who has to build a building...

During the project, my son asks me to join him; so, enthusiastic about his curiosity regarding my work, I explain all the phases to him, from the design to site management: - here we have to do a pour with so much cement, here the beams must be x wide with a square base and y high, the screed on the floor must be made of expanded clay so as not to weigh down the floor too much, the first team of workers will do this, the second that, on the second day we send the electricians and plumbers etc. etc. -

We go to the construction site and begin managing the workers. He follows along and takes note of everything I have told him.

Well... My son at 12 years old will potentially be able to do the exact same building in another place and will be able to manage the workers by imposing the same directives that I imposed on the building I have already constructed.

Let us suppose that my son was so good at copying my work on the first building that he earned the first pages in the newspapers: "12-year-old child designs and builds small apartment building".

They therefore ask him to build a different, larger building... The moral of the story -> He doesn't know how to do it, and if he did, the building would probably collapse as soon as they reached the second floor... It would collapse because he is not a real engineer; he is just a child who has copied his father's directives. He cannot know how to do the cement calculations, he wouldn't know how to distribute the weights of the floors, he wouldn't know how to calculate tolerances. He is just a child who has copied word-for-word what his father did.

Now... Probably the method of copying his father could bring some benefits in the future by making him passionate about the subject and then pursuing the path of civil engineering when he is grown and capable of understanding the engineering at the base of constructions, but it could also lose interest once he discovers that the path to becoming an engineer is not just managing workers and drawing projects, because he would understand that before drawing projects and managing teams of workers, there are many calculations to be made (he would discover a part that might be boring for him).

With this I mean that things should be done in stages. One must provide the foundations of construction by introducing materials, talking about the physical bases of load and load tolerance etc. etc. These are tools that a student can then use in different contexts so that if tomorrow someone were to ask to build a building different from the one his father built, he could answer: - No problem -.

In the piano, the basic setting of pianistic technique, solfeggio, and music theory are topics too important to be glossed over and require the right time—or rather, the time they deserve—to be assimilated, especially if taught to children. Sitting at the piano and showing them for a year straight which notes to play is a shortcut that, in my very modest opinion, leads nowhere, or at least serves little if not nothing. At this point you might reply saying: "But you yourself have often said that technique should be assimilated into music and not just through technical exercises and finger gymnastics". "Yes," I reply, "technique must be assimilated in a musical context that is however within the reach of the boy/child, so that it can be understood and experienced in other musical contexts."

One must accept the fact that to achieve certain results, one must also do the dirty work, in stages, with much dedication and sacrifice, because one does not become a pianist by copying others, just as one does not become an engineer by copying others. This thought I have just mentioned reminds me very much of a phrase by Carlo Rubbia interviewed on Ballarò when speaking of his perplexities regarding cold fusion, where he said (non-verbatim quote because I don't remember exactly, but this was the sense): - I don't believe God has given us a gift from which to derive energy in such a simple way -.

Turning back to the piano, I am ready to bet 10 to 1 that if after those beautiful virtuoso videos of mature Liszt, we put before those children, on the music stand, a piece taken at random from the Cesi-Marciano, they would not be able to play a single bar in a row.

At this point (rhetorical question) "a question spontaneously arises to me"... What have these children learned?

Answer: - a single piece in an entire year of study with the sole purpose of putting on a show and putting their teacher and his "revolutionary" technique under the spotlight -.

PS. Obviously, I reiterate, this is just my very humble opinion.

It seems to me that the reasoning is flawless...

It seems like a very fitting example to me. It is difficult to effectively counter, what you are saying seems very logical to me. Let's just say that in the childhood phase, perhaps obtaining results immediately can be something that motivates the child.

Simone has already well-argued this discussion on a very complex concept. Every different method, in my opinion, can be suitable for different subjects. I consider the Maestro fundamental. I do not want to say many words, but from my experience as both a student and a Musician, I think that above all it is necessary to understand what lies "behind" the Music. Perhaps the best preparatory step is to listen a lot first and listen to the Greats. Today it is very easy... you just open YouTube and we can listen to both the beginner child "so good at papa" or the great Rubinstein, or Lang Lang. All the great pianists and conductors tell of having attended concerts and having desired to be on the podium or seated at the instrument or to take up a violin. Surely what Music suggests to us is the best method. And then it will be the "good" Maestro who will know how to make the student observe how to render and realize. How to make the performance effective, correct, and pleasant to listen to. How to make the phrases intelligible and how to clothe everything with "good taste". In short, He will find the way to "form" this or that Student, also depending on their abilities, their talents, their limits. From the first pieces of Beyer to the choice of repertoire most congenial to the Student, the Maestro can be present, if the Student wishes. Each of us, then, can sometimes be a Maestro, but also a Student, because one never stops learning. Each of us can be "never a Maestro" and/or "never a Student". It also depends on how our Ego manifests itself. Confucius says: "When the Student is ready, the Maestro appears". Let everyone interpret this great phrase in their own way.

Now, when we "package" a method for everyone, we cannot expect great results. Callas used to say that in Vaccaj, a book for those initiating into singing on texts by Metastasio, there is everything a singer must know how to do. Well. But how must it be sung? A good book can give us a little light, but a good Maestro illuminates us. I have never followed the Suzuki method and therefore I do not want to show myself to be against it out of prejudice. But I believe it can only provide some rudiments and formulas to repeat. Of course, it can be a good start, but not an exhaustive one. I have also seen other "level" methods based solely on the performance of contemporary pieces. I believe it is also worth studying the great Classics. They teach us much. This without taking anything away from the culture of contemporary Music, which has a different approach.

In short... in the end I have spoken too much and perhaps I would like to say even more. I will stop here.

I only stumbled upon this forum today and I have already replied to Laura, whom I found first in the list searching for "Suzuki". I took a look at the various replies and, apart from potentially skipping one or two, it seems to me that the essence of the Suzuki Method is not being grasped, which is NOT a method for producing musicians or simply for teaching a musical instrument. On the contrary, it is a system that is simple at first glance but extremely profound for the psychic development of children. Dr. Suzuki always said that his primary desire was to form good citizens. As I did with Laura, I take the liberty here as well to recommend a fundamental reading to understand the "Suzuki" educational methodology:

< Shinichi Suzuki: Early Development of Skills - Edizioni Volontè & C. - Milan >. It can also be found on Amazon and Mondadori. If interested in having more information, just feel free to contact me ( mauro.biancolevrin@libero.it ) and I will freely send some PDFs that deal with some basic aspects of the philosophy underlying Dr. Suzuki's Method.

Mauro Bianco Levrin