The Correct Starting Point — Pianoconcerto Forum

Member

Posts: 5
City: palermo

February 17, 2012, 01:23

I have read, listened to, and studied a lot about the techniques of setting up an action.

"Official" manuals and great experts have revealed much to me regarding the sophisticated secrets of a piano, not least the deserving and commendable founders and supporters of this Forum, to whom I expressly turn today in hope.

With all the honesty that due modesty imposes on me, however, I feel the need today to express a criticism, for constructive purposes only, naturally, and certainly not destructive ones.

Such criticism, which can be summarized in a few words, consists of the lack of organic cohesion between the individual discussions.

In fact, every topic is treated with impeccable competence and seriousness, both technical and logical.

But surely someone has noticed that everywhere there is a lack of a "certain" indication on what is commonly called the "end of the thread" (the heart of the matter)?

I am trying to make myself understood: I am certain that many readers who have already tackled an action have already found themselves, at least once (if they are truly geniuses), having to repeat, after completing the umpteenth adjustment, the first or second one they had already done, accusing themselves: "what an idiot I have been!".

I'll give a banal example: after having adjusted the let-off of all the keys (!!!) based on the individual escapements, realizing that they had to be adjusted beforehand. Yes, but first something else should have been adjusted, otherwise even these adjustments would have been useless. And so on, with the distinct feeling of falling into a spiral similar to the "Game of the Goose".

And now I would like to address a humble prayer to the esteemed experts, also on behalf of all the victims of the passion for a piano:

1. We are faced with the action of a grand piano which, by mere hypothesis, is completely disassembled on the table in every single component.

2. We assemble it with the utmost precision and competence.

3. We must begin (I mean "begin" from scratch) the adjustment of all its components.

The question: where do we start?

And the individual subsequent phases progressively until the last one?

P.S. I mean for the action in the strict sense (keys, repetitions, repetition levers and escapement, wippens, hammers and hammer rest), therefore, excluding strings, pedals, dampers, etc., otherwise, I might as well ask You where to start to build a piano.

Thank you in advance, also just for the patience of having read everything I have written.

pianoexpert

Moderator

Posts: 3,876
City: rocca di papa

February 17, 2012, 15:27

Dear Marcosenior,

Thank you for your observations, because they give me the opportunity to make some clarifications.

What you are demanding is a comprehensive course to become technicians.

From our perspective, there is neither this claim nor the desire to do this

There is no such claim because a training course would require the physical presence of both the student and the teacher, including "fieldwork"

There is no desire because we would like, in this forum, to primarily help pianists identify the sensations corresponding to the "contact" with their own instrument and classify their causes. Some pianists may also become technicians of themselves, but this is not the purpose of the course. Furthermore, as you say, the organic nature of the discussion should be rigorous and could become heavy. Knowledge of the instrument is related to the principles of piano technique; thus, a pianist, for example, who is unable to achieve the hand rotation technique on their own instrument, must rule out the possibility that they cannot achieve it because the key sliding is blocked due to wear of the Kasimir of the front or center key bushings.

So different perspectives!!! It is nonetheless possible in the future, upon request from a certain number of interested people, to organize a course with meetings and experimentation. We shall see

Thank you.

P.S. For example, as far as I know, Casa Renner organizes some mechanical assembly courses in Germany.

Marcosenior

Member

Posts: 5
City: palermo

February 18, 2012, 01:55

Impeccable response.

Nothing to object to. I have clearly understood the sense of your speech (can we use the informal 'tu'? Perhaps yes, because I am your contemporary and then . . . we have a common passion).

You are perfectly right. An organic treatment requires sacrifice and dedication, perhaps that of someone with healthy ambitions to reach honorable professional levels.

Mine is a somewhat "off the beaten track" claim, disregarding, in the misguided pedantry of trying to get what I want, the elementary rules of professional maturation.

And this error is one I commit myself, as a professional (in an entirely different field) who has had many students, with the modest satisfaction of having managed to train only two in a lifetime!

Does it surprise you that someone who has practiced and taught for a lifetime wants to return to being an excellent student? I don't think so, because you are a person of great experience. And you know very well that those who have known how to teach always have too much desire to learn.

Very well! I want to wish you (as a peer) success in always finding the motivation, energy, and enthusiasm to create students who one day can go around saying they were your students and that everything they know, they owe only to you.

What better wish for an enthusiast (aside from the obvious health and serenity)?

But do you think I will stop here? Certainly not.

What I intend to learn, I will learn anyway, and I will succeed. But let me reassure you: it is something I intend to do only for myself, without ever invading anyone's territory and, above all, without taking anything away from those who earn an honest living with this wonderful work.

Now I will surely make you smile: who knows if it will happen . . . but someone promised me that at the end of the year we might even go for a week to the Steinway house . . . .

Congratulations to you. You are a serious professional. And this is a compliment coming from another equally serious professional (forgive the immodesty).

Thesimon

Administrator

Posts: 4,504
City: Ariccia, RM

February 18, 2012, 02:03

Now I will definitely make you smile: who knows if it will work . . . but someone promised me that at the end of the year we could even go for a week at the Steinway house . . . .

Very interesting, it would be worth talking about it in person... It would be nice if I could make a video to publish... If I can use the informal 'you' with you as well, even though from what I understand I am a few years younger than you.

Marcosenior

Member

Posts: 5
City: palermo

February 18, 2012, 02:46

TheSimon wrote:
Very interesting, it would be worth discussing this in person... It would be nice if you could make a video to publish... If I may use the informal 'tu' with you as well, even though from what I understand I am a few years younger than you.

Being addressed with 'tu' by intelligent people always honors me, regardless of age.

Go make a video at the Steinway house???? Did I understand correctly???

But . . . . do you have any idea who you are dealing with?

Listen to me, please: if you had told me "let's go make a video at Buckingham Palace with Queen Elizabeth" I would have answered "But yes! Why not! We can try!".

But at Steinway . . . . . . ???

Do you want me to spend the rest of my days in a Hamburg prison?

I'm joking, of course, but I assure you: it is unthinkable. My hope of receiving the invitation promised to me is already hanging by a thin thread. Imagine with a camera! They won't even let you film the factory "restrooms" (to use a euphemism).

Warm regards.

But I'll make you a promise. If I ever go, I will at least send you some photos (obviously those photos that pass the censorship veto).

Thesimon

Administrator

Posts: 4,504
City: Ariccia, RM

February 18, 2012, 02:59

It looks like we're all staying up late!

Ahahahah... Thank you for "the intelligent person" but... Who were you talking about? 😳

Regarding the photos, we already have a complete set of slides from Paolo. Besides, to get into large venues, you only need big numbers. If you give a large company a reason to think they can get advertising through you, there won't be any problems with filming. They might tell you what can and cannot be filmed. Perhaps in a few years here on the forum we will have the numbers to take such an initiative.

Best regards to you,

sisifo1987

Moderator

Posts: 368
City: castellammare di stabia

February 18, 2012, 11:21

In case you want a little company to go to Steinway, I'm volunteering 🙂!! and who knows, maybe they'll even hire me as an engineer eheheheh (I'm dreaming XD)

Thesimon

Administrator

Posts: 4,504
City: Ariccia, RM

February 18, 2012, 12:37

Get in line, I was here first... Ahahahahha

sisifo1987

Moderator

Posts: 368
City: castellammare di stabia

February 18, 2012, 13:59

ahahahah ok 😃

lorbell

Member

Posts: 112
City: avellino

February 18, 2012, 14:39

if you need a hand ... at your disposal!! 🙂 :)

pianoexpert

Moderator

Posts: 3,876
City: rocca di papa

February 18, 2012, 16:31

I went to Casa Steinway in the 80s. I knew the export manager at the time, Stefan Vertes, a delightful person whom I remember with esteem and affection. I visited the entire Hamburg factory and I possess extensive photographic documentation in DIA format. It was a remarkable experience. Of course, visits can only give an idea. But I would be very interested in a week-long course. Please keep my availability in mind. The factory is beautiful and it is fantastic to discover how an instrument of such value is created entirely by hand, with woods naturally seasoned to a good percentage.

Thank you for your words and compliments on the enthusiasm you show for the instrument loved by both of us.

Marcosenior

Member

Posts: 5
City: palermo

February 18, 2012, 20:12

TheSimon wrote:
We are all staying up late, from what I can see!
Ahahahah... Thank you for "the intelligent person" but... Who were you talking about? 😳
Regarding the photos, we already have a complete set of slides from Paolo. Besides, to get into large venues, you only need big numbers. If you give a large company a reason to think they can obtain advertising through you, there won't be any problems with filming. They might tell you what can and cannot be filmed. Perhaps in a few years here on the forum we will have the numbers to take such an initiative.
Warm regards to you,

And yes... but that is exactly the problem: I, at least, wouldn't know what tricks to use to make a large company think [that way].

The idea of being accompanied by Kissin seems more feasible to me, or maybe Argerich, who are practically locals there. Will you call them? Do you have the number?

Warm regards!

Marcosenior

Member

Posts: 5
City: palermo

February 18, 2012, 20:45

pianoexpert wrote:
I went to Casa Steinway in the '80s. I knew the export manager at the time, Stefan Vertes, a delightful person whom I remember with esteem and affection. I visited the entire Hamburg factory and I possess extensive photographic documentation in DIA format. It was a remarkable experience. Of course, visits can only give an idea. But I would be very interested in a week-long course. Keep my availability in mind. The factory is beautiful and it is fantastic to discover how an instrument of such value is created entirely by hand, with woods naturally seasoned to a good percentage.
Thank you for your words and compliments on the enthusiasm you show for the instrument loved by both of us.

Well, once I'm done joking with The Simon, I will read what you have written.

I believe I can have a very clear idea of what your memory of the visit to Steinway house might be today. Also because a dear friend of mine who had the experience of going there for courses, if only the word Steinway is mentioned, first he freezes, then he lights up immensely, and then he starts talking about smells, atmosphere, excitement... it never happens to him even when speaking of the most beautiful woman in his life!

The week-long course....

That is exactly what I hope (I say hope) to be able to achieve.

But, as an excellent expert as you are, you know very well that such a privilege can only be obtained through a dealer, and who the dealers are in Italy, you know better than I do.

As often happens in life, if you don't have a patron saint, (unfortunately) you don't get far.

This is to tell you that I am not so powerful, as I fear you may have understood, as to be able to make such an opportunity happen for whomever I choose.

I assure you that if I had such power, I would not hesitate to make myself available to you to extend this pleasure to you.

But... I always say "you never know". Who knows, if I were to manage to obtain this great favor, I might also have the chance to meet some other right person on site. And usually, I make myself well-liked (thanks to them, naturally).

The important thing is to stay in touch and maintain a long-term relationship of mutual esteem and respect.

Warm regards.