"The kids used to play but nobody listened to them"

Lowseling wrote:

In this regard, when I was little, I was told a story about Beethoven; I don't know if it is true, but the story said that during a concert at court, Beethoven was not being listened to by the nobles, so he stood up and left. Now, I don't think it's a true story, but regardless, it is perhaps what should be done sooner or later!

Beethoven got angry many times and in many concerts - let's just say it was almost a daily occurrence - whether because they played badly, or for this reason, or for that reason, but perhaps the story you are referring to that you were told concerns another case, which I will mention below.

It is certain that at that time music was not listened to in religious silence and the audience, more than being nobles - at least in the theaters - was composed of rude bourgeois people - the coarse and ignorant plebeian class, as the composer defined them - who during various performances would eat, laugh, and talk. It is said that the opening chords of the first movement of the Eroica were conceived by Beethoven in such an imperious manner precisely because he wanted to call the audience to silence.

As for the nobility, however, Beethoven was the first composer to create an equal relationship with this class, also because he - like Goethe, although the latter was more about words than deeds - believed that true nobility in man was not given by descent but by what one knew how to build through one's own art.

And in this regard, famous was the phrase that he shouted, in one of his usual moments of fatal wrath, to his protector, patron, and friend Prince Lichnowsky, after slamming the door and walking away:

There have been and will be thousands of princes and kings; there is only one Beethoven

As a "punishment," I would have forced them to learn how to play the same pieces in half a day, no matter what absurd results they achieved, and if they hadn't reached even a minimal level of decency (we know it's impossible, but that would have been the "beauty" of such a punishment), they would have walked home on foot and hungry (but paying for the boys' dinner).

An alternative would be to make as much noise as possible while they are holding one of their "rallies," or (better) during a press conference, but since they (and I am not just talking about politicians) have "difficulty" putting themselves in others' shoes, it might be time for them to wear them once in a while.

As a matter of report, it has been pointed out to me that there is a new element in the matter, which is probably also one of the reasons why the "political" responses to that letter were few. And that confirms my certainty that the letter had a precise purpose...

the girl's father is nobody. And Emilio Cabasino is the former president of MIBAC, a researcher and an exponent of the so-called Democratic minority of the PD. When at the end of the article he says that the convention is an own goal for the PD, he is talking about his own party and is expressing a judgment on a faction, his faction.

By underlining this, I am also trying to make it understood that, from my point of view, the problem is the purpose of the letter and the media buzz. None of what happened will change the behavior of the majority of Italians regarding music by even a comma. That letter does not aim to change anything, but to attribute to a political party (the PD as it has become with Renzi) an attitude COMMON TO ALL. The videos that gave you white hair simply made it clear to me that that was not a concert. It did not have the intention, it did not have the elements, it did not have the audience, it did not even have the architecture: in front of the orchestra is Renzi's "pulpit" and it is visible that everyone was there to listen to Renzi. If the kids didn't know this, I'm sorry but it's not the PD's fault (generically); it is, at most, the fault of those who did not warn them about what, to me as an adult, seems OBVIOUS.

Musicological specifics: we are all aware that silence during a concert is a habit born in Romanticism with the great virtuosos, right? Would someone complain about the noise in a club during a rock band's concert? The kids' disappointment is the result of their own expectation and, and here I agree with you, the absence of protective figures at that moment. I didn't seem to hear anyone shouting, calling for attention, or complaining loudly to drown out the noise. And this makes me think that the adults "in charge" of the situation, such as the Conductor, were absolutely aware of how things were going and how they would go.

If we then want to turn this topic into a series of "it's raining, thief government," go ahead...

A picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2015/02/25/juniorchestra-video-bambini_n_6750496.html?ref=fbph&ncid=fcbklnkithpmg00000001

thallo wrote:

As a matter of news, it has been pointed out to me that there is a new element in the matter, which is probably also one of the reasons why the "political" responses to that letter were few. And which confirms my certainty that the letter had a precise purpose...

the girl's father is a nobody. And Emilio Cabasino is the former president of MIBAC, a researcher and an exponent of the so-called Democratic minority of the PD. When at the end of the article he says that the convention is an own goal for the PD, he is talking about his own party and is expressing a judgment on a faction, his faction.

By underlining this, I am also trying to make it understood that, from my point of view, the problem is the purpose of the letter and the media buzz. None of what happened will change the behavior of the majority of Italians regarding music by even a single comma. That letter does not aim to change anything, but to attribute an attitude COMMON TO ALL to a political party (the PD as it has become under Renzi). The videos that made you go gray-haired simply made it clear to me that that was not a concert. It did not have the intention, it did not have the elements, it did not have the audience, it didn't even have the architecture: in front of the orchestra is Renzi's "pulpit" and it is visible that everyone was there to listen to Renzi. If the kids didn't know this, I'm sorry but it's not the PD's fault (generically); it is at most the fault of those who did not warn them about what, to me as an adult, seems OBVIOUS.

Musicological specifics: we are all aware that silence during a concert is a habit born in Romanticism with the great virtuosos, right? Is there anyone who would complain about the noise in a club during a rock band's concert? The kids' disappointment is the result of their own expectation and, and here I agree with you, the absence of protective figures at that moment. I didn't seem to hear anyone shouting, calling for attention, or complaining loudly to drown out the noise. And this makes me think that the adults "in charge" of the situation, such as the Conductor, were absolutely aware of how things were going and how they would go.

If we then want to turn this topic into a series of "it's raining, the government is a thief," go ahead...

Personally, I don't care about the letter and I don't care whether they are politicians or not; what I mean is that behaving in that way at a concert is rudeness and I find no other way to call it. The fact that they are politicians underlines the fact that they should set an example and they don't, but that is another matter entirely; I am seeing them as citizens, which they are. Furthermore, one certainly cannot compare a classical concert with a rock concert, because in a rock concert there are nine billion watts of amplification that could cover even the explosion of a thermonuclear bomb. Politicians are Italian citizens and Italian citizens, on that occasion, showed themselves to be rude (not to mention those in the front row with their backs turned).

Moreover, whoever allowed the concert to proceed in this manner did not have the guts to reprimand the people in the hall, and this is much more serious, because in this case if I had been the conductor, I would have interrupted everything."},

Lowseling wrote:

Personally, I don't give a damn about the letter and I don't care whether they are politicians or not; what I mean is that behaving that way at a concert is rudeness and I find no other way to call it. The fact that they are politicians underlines the fact that they should set an example and they don't, but that is another matter entirely; I am seeing them as citizens, which they are. Furthermore, one definitely cannot compare a classical concert with a rock concert, because in a rock concert there are nine billion watts of amplification that would even cover the explosion of a thermonuclear bomb. The politicians are Italian citizens and the Italian citizens, on that occasion, showed themselves to be rude (not to mention those in the front row with their backs turned).

Moreover, whoever allowed the concert to proceed in this manner did not have the guts to reprimand the people in the hall, and this is much more serious, because in this case if I had been the conductor, I would have interrupted everything.

You are right! A hundred million times right!... and even more!

Claudio, whether he is one of the Dem minority or whoever he may be, that parent is right; that is the only point.

We remain in disagreement

Let us remain democratically in disagreement. I quote Lowseling's intervention 1000 percent%

I agree both with Thallo and the others, but I feel much less "understanding," even if I imagine the potential motivations of that father and everything else.

Anyone who goes to a concert (in this case it is evident that he was not, even if implicitly interpreted as such by many present, but rather as mere background) or attends one of those occasions like the one that took place, must or should still have respect for whoever is playing, and if they don't have it for him (or them), they should at least have it for the music (and therefore by extension for the performer); otherwise, they should meet at a fish market and vent as much as they want.

I always suggest to kids who are busy with end-of-year recitals to wait for absolute silence in the hall before starting to play their piece. There is nothing that invites silence better than an instrumentalist on stage who does not start playing.

I understand that in this specific case perhaps no one would have even noticed, but I would have given a couple of shouts from the stage... and personally speaking, if a couple of energetic requests for silence had had no effect, I wouldn't have even started playing and I would have left. I don't know how the performance was agreed upon, or in that case, paid... I would have even asked for the due compensation through a lawyer!

They must have played for free.

Frank wrote:

I always suggest to kids who are busy with end-of-year recitals to wait for absolute silence in the hall before starting to play their piece. There is nothing that invites silence better than an instrumentalist on stage who does not start playing.

I understand that in this specific case perhaps no one would have even noticed, but I would have given a couple of shouts from the stage... and personally speaking, if a couple of energetic requests for silence had had no effect, I wouldn't even have started playing and I would have left. I don't know how the performance was agreed upon, or in this case, paid for... I would have even asked for the due compensation through a lawyer!

When I was little at a recital, since they weren't being quiet, I rested my elbows on the keyboard and called them all out; perhaps the choice not to play is a bit more peaceful! xD

Speaking of these things, when I met Jerome Rose, he had a concert scheduled that evening and we went to hear him. He started with Brahms; after a few bars, a girl took a photo with flash. Jerome visibly stopped playing, pissed off, and said curtly: "NO PHOTO!".

He started playing again from the beginning and gave a beautiful concert.

I wonder what would have happened if he had found himself in the situation of these kids... Probably after getting properly angry and having reprimanded a very impolite audience with very heated tones, he would have turned his back and left, amidst the silence of the auditorium.