I want to pay tribute here, at the opening of this section, to the "protagonists" of harmony........Which ones? But naturally, FIFTHS AND OCTAVES!!!!!!!
How they have persecuted us in Harmony writings!!!! They would pop out suddenly, hiding in the inner parts!!!!! Damn. And yet.......Puccini uses fifths, it seems to me to create the effect of cold...and then...the wonderful finale of Bohème!!!!! All instruments play the same notes in unison and in octaves!!!!!!!! Puccini could never have thought of a more heartbreaking finale after Mimì's death!!!!!! But why?
My Harmony Master, a pupil of the great Sergiu Celibidache, used to tell me that, having now reached the seventh year of Composition, while presenting a work, the Master, beside him, marked in red some octaves and fifths that he had deliberately inserted into a passage of the composition. The student, in silence, made a gesture of disapproval with his head as if to say...."it's okay, I know it's an error, but it is intentional...we are in the seventh year of Composition....". Celibidache noticed this out of the corner of his eye and, smiling without looking up, said: "I am marking these fifths and these octaves for you not because they are an error.......but because there........they do not belong". Honor to a Prince of musical taste!! My Master became a great conductor and always carried these words in his heart. Now it is I who guard them and offer them to you.
Greetings to all
Paolo
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Dave
Member
Reply 2 by Dave
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70
Can I ask a question?
Since I am studying Pedron's Harmony Course, in which chapter 2, if I remember correctly, says regarding the motion of parts that 2 fifths and octaves are forbidden, but I have never understood the reason for this "prohibition", could you explain it to me, Paolo? 🙂
One must start from the physical - harmonic phenomenon: We observe that the first six harmonics present the fundamental well 3 times, but the third only once. The "PERFECT" major chord is formed precisely from these harmonics. The major triad chord is found in NATURE! It is not a created artifice. The same is true for the minor chord, which is created by lowering the third (therefore an invention, an artifice). The minor third is not present in the first harmonics. The third is of vital importance. It makes us understand "where we are". It cannot be omitted. What would a triad or seventh chord be... without the third? Parallel fifths highlight this "void". They confirm an absence. Perhaps my explanation is a bit "literary". But I believe it is so
It is evident that in Bohème, Puccini wants to evoke the cold of the snowy scene....What could be better than empty and parallel fifths!!!! A fantastic find, exploiting a harmonic error.
Furthermore, parallelism "reinforces" this void, diminishing the value of the inner parts of the chord. I believe it holds true for both fifths and octaves.
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Dave
Member
Reply 4 by Dave
Posts
70
pianoexpert wrote:
One must start from the physical-harmonic phenomenon: We observe that the first six harmonics present the fundamental well 3 times, but the third only once. The "PERFECT" major chord is formed precisely from these harmonics. The major triad chord is found in NATURE! It is not a created artifice. The same goes for the minor chord, which is created by lowering the third (therefore an invention, an artifice). The minor third is not present in the first harmonics. The third is of vital importance. It makes us understand "where we are". It cannot be omitted. What would become of a triad or seventh chord... without the third? Parallel fifths highlight this "void". They confirm an absence. Perhaps my explanation is a bit "literary". But I believe it is so
It is evident that in Bohème, Puccini wants to evoke the cold of the snowy scene....What could be better than empty and parallel fifths!!!! A fantastic find, exploiting a harmonic error.
Furthermore, parallelism "reinforces" this void, diminishing the value of the inner parts of the chord. I believe the same applies to both fifths and octaves.
Thank you Paolo, it is a bit clearer to me except for one thing... excuse me... what do you mean by parallel fifths?
He means successions of fifths for direct motion... Let's remember that fifth and octave relations for direct motion are permitted! Successions are forbidden...
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Dave
Member
Reply 6 by Dave
Posts
70
TheSimon wrote:
He means successions of fifths for direct motion... Let's remember that fifth and octave relations for direct motion are allowed! Successions are forbidden...
Ah OK, I mean I understood everything but 'everything' is a big word, I can say it's all clearer to me 🙂 ... there is a sea of things I have to learn and this is thanks to you! 🙂
Fifth and octave relationships are permitted between inner parts. In 4-part harmonization (bass - tenor - alto - soprano), the inner parts are bass and tenor, bass and alto, tenor and alto, tenor and soprano, alto and soprano. If, among these combinations, two of these voices form a fifth or an octave by direct motion starting from a chord that is not a fifth or an octave, we obtain a fifth or octave relationship. Starting from a fifth or octave chord in the same parts moving by direct motion to form another octave or another fifth—meaning we have the case of two fifths or two octaves by direct motion—this is defined as a succession of fifths or octaves, which is always an error. However, as Paolo rightly said in the first post, sometimes octaves and fifths, particularly in the case of octave successions, are often defined as reinforcement octaves, where the note constituting the octave is used deliberately in order to reinforce the sound.
