Triple and Quadruple Counterpoint

Yes, years of experience

Peace of mind comes at a cost

Organista94 wrote:

Are there methodologies or "tricks"

I will only mention one name: "Athanasius Kircher"

I saw it on Wiki, but it's a catch-all term...

what does it have to do with the fugue

It makes me think why it is defined as musicologist somewhere, but musicology isn't something very recent, or am I wrong?

I saw that he wrote stuff titled "Musurgia"... maybe it's relevant.

Gennarino wrote:

I saw that he wrote things titled "Musurgia"... maybe it's relevant.

I think it is very relevant. A music pedagogy professor told me about it years ago. It's a pity there is only the Latin version and no translations; in short, it deals with the mathematical patterns upon which canonical technique is based in a broad sense... and I think Bach knew them.

Regarding the discussion of whether [I am] a musicologist or not, I am not the most suitable person. Thallo might be more precise.

One of the tips for writing good melodic lines for counterpoint is to prioritize thirds and sixths between the two voices so that when inverted, they will yield intervals of sixth and third respectively; the octave interval is also good, whereas it is better to avoid fifth intervals because when inverted they will become fourths, and to avoid two consecutive fourth intervals because when inverted they will result in parallel fifths; furthermore, it is a good system to proceed as much as possible by stepwise motion in melodies so that the intermediate notes can be classified as passing notes that do not form harmony, thus providing a slightly better chance to play with dissonances.

These are small things, but it is already a good start.

Obviously, triple counterpoint occurs when each of the three melodic lines can serve as the lowest voice, middle voice, or highest voice with the other two above in any combination; the greatest attention must be paid precisely to the care of intervals and to the fact that when inverted they must not create forbidden combinations (I think you are referring to an academic or otherwise rigorous context); it requires much more craftsmanship than inspiration, anyway... for example, the last divertimento of a scholastic fugue is generally conceived in triple counterpoint before arriving at an eventual dominant pedal.

Aside from sharing what Geppino writes, I have never liked the idea of writing a triple counterpoint "gratuitously," in the sense that at an exam one must necessarily test a certain technique. But is it possible that one should do it just for fun?

In my opinion, triple counterpoint must imply a structure that fully exploits such a procedure... and not confine it to a mere exercise.

Thanks guys, I'm a bit curious about this Kircher...

Regarding Geppino's suggestions, I have a doubt. If we manage 4 parts without ever touching fourth intervals (or fifths in the case of inversions), won't the tonal sense be somewhat lost?

We would only have thirds octaves ... and sixths ...

During this period I am composing 24 preludes and 24 fugues; they will not be pieces in perfect Baroque style, but I will use musical idioms also from non-classical music.

One of the problems I am solving is precisely that of writing triple and quadruple counterpoints in some fugues, because by doing so, once the triple or quadruple counterpoint is composed, I will then be able to use it during the course of the fugue simply by exchanging the voices. To do this, I am trying to create a method through harmonic schemes from which to then start embellishing the various voices and creating the actual counterpoint.

Organista94 wrote:

On 24/4/2012 at 11:54, Organista94 said:

We would only have minor thirds ... and sixths ...

I advise you to analyze the quadruple counterpoint present in Mozart's Jupiter symphony; you will see that in reality fourth and fifth intervals are also present, obviously used in the correct manner (passing notes, suspensions...).