Upright piano regulation

From what I have been able to learn thanks to the precious tutorials of Maestro Ferrarelli, the difficulty of producing a piano sound depends on the escapement distance of the hammer from the string.

The smaller it is, the greater the possibility of playing softly and therefore, with the right touch, one should be able to achieve greater dynamic expressiveness.

Usually, this distance should be about 1 mm, 1.5 mm at most 2... In uprights with a practice pedal (sordina), however, it is not possible to respect these distances because space must be left for the felt of the pedal itself... therefore, this distance can even reach 3 mm, making it difficult to play "piano".

The sensation of keyboard stiffness could depend on friction... in any case, intervening on the weights seems like a terrible idea since every action has its own proportions in terms of both distances and weight.

This is the idea I have formed for myself... but here on the forum there are professional technicians who will be able to advise you best.

I repeat to you as well, since you have just arrived, that it is absolutely necessary to first check the friction of the mechanical pins. Disassemble a couple of hammers and check if the capstans are stiff (they should move with about 3-5 g.). Then check the repetitions. Disassemble some of them and perform the same check on the capstan and the escapement lever. The latter, once the spring is released, should fall under its own weight. Last but not least, check the mechanism of the dampers.

You must also check the front and center keyboard felts and the felt on the heels of the repetitions.

Only after these checks can the true key descent and return weight be measured. Weights that must not be influenced by the damper mechanism.

The eventual replacement of the same is a task for experts, and I advise using only straight reamers (not conical ones). During replacement, care must be taken to install oversized pins by reaming, precisely, the cashmere [inner surface] of the capstan holes.

NO LUBRICANTS, NO GREASES, NO GUNK (except a thin layer of teflon powder)

Let me know

I'm reading G minor now! Right! Then we will talk about the correct adjustments.

Thank you all for the answer and the advice!

In fact, mine is a silent upright piano...

For the hammer regulation operations, I think I will have to rely on a technician in my area (Vicenza) whom I actually still need to locate... I am absolutely not capable of putting my hands on it... or rather, perhaps I am afraid of causing damage!!!

Thank you again everyone

Luca

Excuse the perhaps trivial question: once the frictions have been checked... if I had to adjust the hammer escapement, would having a piano with a "silent" system prevent me from going below a certain distance, meaning I might have to settle for a keyboard that is not very sensitive to "piano"?

In my opinion, it always depends on the cause... Is the sound loud because, since the keyboard is hard, you are forced to strike the keys with more force? In this case, the loud sound is a natural consequence of the fact that you are acting on the keys with more force... so it could depend heavily on friction and those aspects that Maestro Ferrarelli told you to check which influence the key dip weight.

If the friction is OK and the key dip weight is within the norm (if I am not mistaken, it should be between approximately 55 and 48 grams) and the sound is loud even when pressing the keys with little energy, then this difficulty could depend on the let-off distance I mentioned before, as well as (correct me if I'm wrong) the hammer-to-string rest distance, which should be about 4.5 cm. The greater this distance is, the more force the hammer will strike the string with, thus obtaining a louder sound than intended.

In silent systems, however, I don't know if these parameters are different and if such distances are greater than normal specifically to accommodate the silent mode, where a bar is interposed between the hammers and the strings.

In any case, I would proceed in order as he always suggests: first check the friction and therefore the key dip weight... and then proceed with the rest.

Thank you so much for your expertise.

I will try to contact an expert in the Vicenza area and then I will let you know the verdict!

Thank you

Luca

The piano is new, right? If there were excessive friction on the pins or on the sliding parts of a factory-new Yamaha, I would be quite surprised, so I would tend to rule it out.

I would ask the technician to check the position of the hammer rails; by moving them forward a little, you might solve the problem (if you can take a photo of a hammer rail in the middle of the keyboard with the key pressed, you can immediately see if it is too far back; the knuckle must be positioned occupying the upper part without falling too low).

There should also be the repetition lever bar; have them check that the play between the repetition lever and this bar when the key is pressed is not excessive.

The let-off on the upright must be between 2 and 3 mm on the bass notes, in silent models from 3 to 4 mm (unfortunately).... reducing the let-off distance too much causes the hammer to bounce on pianissimo (this applies to both uprights and grands). In my opinion, touching them would only make the situation worse.

Regarding the discussion on let-off, I would like to specify that the measurements given by manufacturers are sometimes relative to the various sections (for example, 2 mm for treble, 2.5 mm for mid-range, and 3 mm for bass); others, such as Steinway themselves, speak of 1 mm, but be careful because they are always referring to the treble section. In fact, in the manual for use and maintenance for the Steinway concert grand, the factory manager in Hamburg writes that this distance must be increased progressively towards the bass.... so be careful about setting the let-off too close because it serves no purpose.

Even at the fair in Cremona this weekend, I didn't see any new piano (Steinway, Fazioli, Bösendorfer) with the let-off set at 1 mm! Also regarding the aftertouch (which is not just a matter of having more or fewer felts but of balance between the first and second let-off and spring tension), the official Steinway manual clearly states that one must obtain (OBTAIN, not set) an aftertouch of one and a half millimeters.

In general, I do not agree with overly aggressive measurements....

I agree with excluding the friction problem, since the piano is brand new and I personally play it very little (I am not a student but a self-taught player who plays a few hours a week if all goes well).

Thank you for the indications... now I only have to find a competent technician; frankly, I don't know who to turn to other than Bettin in Padua, where I purchased the piano.

Can you recommend a name?

Thank you

Luca

lucapiano wrote:

I agree with excluding the friction problem, since the piano is brand new and I personally play it very little (I am not a student but a self-taught player who plays a few hours a week if all goes well).

Thank you for the indications... now I only have to identify a competent technician; frankly, I don't know who to turn to other than Bettin in Padua where I purchased the piano.

Can you recommend a name?

Thank you

Luca

Bettin is certainly no fool. I would speak with him about your discomfort to see if it can be mitigated.... try suggesting the issue of hammer regulation, without imposing it obviously....

i would also check the tension of the damper springs; perhaps they can be loosened a little.

is the discomfort more present with the right pedal pressed or not pressed?

I would say more like with the right pedal not pressed...

lucapiano wrote:

I would say more like with the right pedal not pressed...

Then it could be a problem of the damper release being too early and/or the spring being too loaded.....talk to the technician.....if it is regulated according to the rules, then that's how it is and there isn't much to do, perhaps study more :-D

Besides, the piano is new and it is also normal.....it would be more of a personalization than a problem with the instrument.

Ciao

Keep in mind that it is always an upright, so the key is not very long even if the model is tall.

You can't perform miracles....

The large uprights of the past, those German ones, had a wider cabinet; consequently, the key was also longer and a more pleasant touch could be achieved through regulation. This is why many intelligent pianists still look for these restored instruments.

Anyway, I repeat, by advancing the hammer, slightly delaying the damper action, and lightly loosening the springs, you might find the keyboard more comfortable; obviously, you have to find someone willing to come to your house for an entire morning to do this work.

I wouldn't know who to point you to in Padua, however

Thank you so much really, bye

Sorry, you were probably referring to a piano shop called "Bettin" that I don't know. I was instead referring to Bettin the tuner.

Yes of course, I believe it's Bettin from Montebelluna, I think... anyway I will try to ask if Bettin pianoforti in Padua uses a tuner/technician capable of understanding the situation.

In any case, I have tried "uprights" that are lower than mine, one that comes to mind is a Yamaha U1, with a softer keyboard, so the issue of the long or short key doesn't make sense to me, but I repeat, I am speaking as a layman regarding mechanics. You will tell me: why didn't you buy the U1 then? Well, surely for the sound quality which is splendid on the YUS 3... In short, I would like the softness of the U1 on the YUS 3; at this point I don't know if it's possible, perhaps because of the silent system installed... I don't know... Today I will stop by the shop to hear what they tell me!

lucapiano wrote:

Yes certainly, I believe it's Bettin from Montebelluna, I think... anyway I will try to ask if Bettin pianoforti in Padua relies on a tuner/technician capable of understanding the situation.

I have tried some "uprights" lower than mine, a Yamaha U1 comes to mind, with a softer keyboard, so the issue of the long or short key doesn't make sense to me, but I repeat, I am speaking as a layman regarding mechanics. You will tell me: why didn't you buy the U1 then? Well, surely for the sound quality which is splendid in the YUS 3... In short, I would like the softness of the U1 on the YUS 3; at this point I don't know if it's possible, perhaps because of the installed silent system... I don't know... Today I will stop by the shop to hear what they tell me!

Maybe it had less sound, and for that reason it was more manageable. I assure you that the key length certainly matters.

You should have a professional try the piano to see how they feel; anyway, the adjustments at the regulation level (the ones I told you about) can also be done with the silent system active.

Thanks for the tips, I'll do as you say... Bye!