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Warm-up times

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Thesimon

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Opening post by Thesimon

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Good morning,

personally, every time I sit down at the piano, I have to start with at least half an hour of technique, gradually becoming more intense, but only after an hour / an hour and a half do I feel I have reached the ideal "temperature" to start playing. After that hour of warming up, I feel that my hands are exactly a natural extension of my head; I only have to think about how I want a phrase to come out or how a sound should emerge, and my hands do it automatically. Before this hour of warming up, I don't feel comfortable, and I have to exaggerate certain movements to make them perfectly clean.

Do you also have such long warm-up times?

There are those who argue, like Paolo, that one should play little before a concert so as not to waste energy unnecessarily, but if I don't play for at least an hour, even an hour and a half before the start of the concert, my hands don't do what I have in mind...

What are your times? How do you behave in the case of concerts?

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Reply 2 by nancy

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?

really?...are you speaking strictly from a muscular point of view?

i just start studying directly. of course, after a few minutes there is greater fluidity and all that, and the hands seem to do exactly what I want (as you say), but I don't feel the need to "warm up" the hand. rather, sometimes when cold (for certain pieces) I find the attack of the piece difficult, but it is a mental difficulty, not a muscular one.... when the piece is not yet mature, the right attack can be difficult due to the touch or the clarity of the initial passages. but I repeat, this is a different difficulty. I am still very "scholastic".....

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Reply 3 by antares86

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Well, I practically performed the Bach concert cold or almost... However, it must be said that since everything is lighter, I don't need strength, but rather a lot of fluidity and "hand opening""

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Reply 4 by nancy

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antares86 wrote:

Well, I practically performed the Bach concert cold or almost... However, it must be said that since everything is lighter, I don't need strength, but rather a lot of fluidity and "hand opening"

,,,you made me remember something.... when I was in my 5th year I often played on the grand pianos (a beautiful Bösendorfer) at the conservatory auditorium and since the keyboard was veeeery heavy, I developed the false conception that indeed a lot of strength was needed, to be obtained with massive warming up, and I would prepare to play as if I had to do some kind of bodybuilding test for the fingers.... scales and Hanon for at least an hour....

but I don't think that is Simone's conception.... I believe she moved past these false conceptions a lifetime ago and in fact perhaps she never even had them....

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Reply 5 by antares86

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You should try the clavichord keyboard then, even though without strings and tangents it is incredibly light; it has no counterweight, it is simply a wooden lever on a fulcrum. I've seen some even weighted at the ends, but not this one I am finishing; to lighten everything, the keys are hollowed out under the plates—there, forget about the weight, seriously ahahah

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Reply 6 by Thesimon

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Temperature is not being discussed, even if "warm-up times" would suggest that; we are talking about hand elasticity. After an hour and a half, I can play anything with both the right and left hands simply by thinking it with extreme clarity. And the quality of execution is certainly better. Everything comes out cleaner; in fast passages, the note durations are perfectly identical, everything is heard. Before this hour of warm-up, no.

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Reply 7 by nancy

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it's certainly not a thermal issue....

in my opinion, it is a perceptual and concentration need... but you can achieve the same goals of precision, cleanliness, and fluidity by starting directly on the repertoire without the need to technicalize the first phase of study... IMHO!!!

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Reply 8 by nancy

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Then in my opinion, the ability to publicly perform a repertoire cold, that is, without warming up and being immediately lucid and precise, is a goal related to artistic maturity... and to the knowledge of the pieces. When the piece is ready, it doesn't need to be warmed up.... right?

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Reply 9 by ttw

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As a general suggestion, I am on the same wavelength as Paolo, but it is also true that being living beings, we are all different; if you have noticed that you "function" better with an hour and a half of warm-up... do it

In essence, there cannot be a rule that is valid for everyone.

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Reply 10 by pianoexpert

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I am much more on Nancy's and ttw's side. Not that what Simone says isn't right. In fact, each of us has our own timing and methods. It makes me think a bit of the approach great orators use when they want to "gain traction" over those listening. I consider some politicians and some union leaders to be great orators. Not, naturally, because of the nonsense they say, but because of how they know how to arrive progressively, starting "from nothing," at the maximum level of expression and intensity to emphasize what they want to assert. I believe that in Music it is somewhat the same thing. Sitting at the piano and playing Chopin's Polonaise op. 44 or a barbaric allegro by Bartok right away is not a "good thing," neither for the player nor for the listener. Perhaps starting with a calmer and more cantabile piece could be "a good thing." Instead of warming one's hands at the fireplace, simultaneously warming our mind and our heart. Entering Music "immediately," on tiptoe, to then ask of ourselves and of It always more. Everything becomes natural and nothing is preparatory. Everything serves everything. Technique, Music, Gesture, they interpenetrate, without concern for approach. If we find ourselves facing an instrument that will allow us to express ourselves and to entrust ourselves to it, instead of challenging it, we may discover that from the very beginning our muscular potential is actually exuberant compared to the energies required. Gradually, like that orator who wants to assert and progressively interest those listening, we will enter deeper and deeper into Music and everything will become increasingly intense and incisive.

Conversely, I believe that "warming up" for half an hour can "distract me" from what is the beginning of the "discourse," from the point from which I must move... to arrive.

Sit down. Concentrate. Open the door of Music. Play.

A "good thing," I believe, is... thinking, before the attack of the piece... about the first notes or the first bars of the piece itself. Listening to it without starting... as if it were beginning inside us. When we start... playing... we will already find ourselves in Music. Surely many of you already do this. But I invite you to do it. The results will be surprising. The first few times it will take a little while to... open the door, but then, later, one can see that just a few seconds of concentration are enough to find oneself already... "on the other side." Some musicians even manage to go through this "preparation" before going on stage, so as to begin as soon as they sit at the instrument.

Naturally, all this is... "in my opinion" and I respect any other method.

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Reply 11 by giangi

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I agree with Simone,... it also happens to me that as soon as I sit at the piano I need a little warm-up (I don't mean for cold hands!) 5 minutes of scales are enough for me and then I can start with fast pieces; in effect, the hand then gains elasticity and fluidity and the touch becomes much cleaner. Perhaps it is just my obsession, but I usually always start this way; in fact, this is my problem: if I have to play fast pieces suddenly like that, I get that anxiety of not performing at my best.

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Reply 12 by francescochopin90

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Muscle warming up per se is often not necessary, unless we are at freezing temperatures. Human blood is warm and hands are well-perfused with blood. In reality, hands do not need to be warmed up, just as the voice does not, except perhaps minimally, in a way even remotely comparable to an athlete's warm-up. Personally, I do need warming up, yes, but "mental" warming up. It is about getting familiar with the instrument, playing some chords, playing pp (our touch relies entirely on the escapement! The rest of the key travel serves us to manage energy in dynamics and various technical approaches), savoring the tuning (one hopes!), how the instrument vibrates, how the hall responds. But also getting in tune with the composers we are going to play, etc. Sometimes even being alone, in silence, helps a lot: at least for me!

In public (but also alone) I never start a piece from the first note. I choose a musical phrase that connects well to the first note and... I sing it in my mind! It also helps me when a slightly more "suspended" attack is needed.

Another thing is understanding how we react psychologically to a performance. Personally, I tend to have a more blended, slow, contemplative touch at the beginning, only to become light, articulated, and extroverted as it progresses. Well! I will choose my repertoire based on this characteristic as well!

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Reply 13 by giangi

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Yes it's true I agree with Francesco........., but I meant something else which I will now explain in more detail, let me give an example regarding the study of Chopin op 25 no. 2 it is a presto (velocissimo) if I were to sit at the piano and play it as the first piece the performance would not be beautiful or clean with a beautiful brilliant and light touch, but if I were to play it after having played some pieces before or even scales it would result in being much more fluid and with a much more beautiful touch.......AND I SAY IS IT A MENTAL FACTOR?

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Reply 14 by francescochopin90

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Let's say psychophysical. The warm-up didn't loosen your fingers or anything, it allowed you to find your postural and mental balance. Try doing the same thing, but not with technique, but with very simple pieces.

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Reply 15 by Thesimon

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francescochopin90 wrote:

On 22/6/2020 at 06:10, francescochopin90 said:

Muscle warming up per se is often not necessary, unless we are at freezing temperatures. Human blood is warm and hands are irrigated with blood. In reality, hands do not need to be warmed up, just as the voice does not, except perhaps in a minimal part, not even remotely comparable to an athlete's warm-up. Personally, I need warming up, yes, but "mental" warming up. It is about getting familiar with the instrument, playing some chords, playing pp (our touch relies entirely on the escapement! The rest of the key travel serves us to manage energy in dynamics and various technical approaches), savoring the tuning (one hopes!), how the instrument vibrates, how the hall responds. But also entering into harmony with the composers we are going to play, etc. Sometimes even being alone, in silence, helps a lot: at least for me!

In public (but also alone) I never start a piece from the first note. I choose a musical phrase that connects well to the first note and... I sing it in my mind! It also helps when a slightly more "suspended" attack is needed.

Another thing is understanding how we react psychologically to a performance. Personally, I tend to have a more blended, slow, contemplative touch at the beginning, then becoming easy, articulated, extroverted as it progresses. Well! I will choose my repertoire also based on this characteristic!

Every individual is unique. Physically, cold does not exist, only the quantity of heat. If we are walking around on a cold day, our body gives off heat to the environment and thus, in common language, we say it "cools down." That blood is warm is an assumption that, put this way, means little. If it is 0 degrees Celsius outside and your hands are bare, the amount of heat given off to the environment is much greater than the heat that blood circulation can return to the hands (that's why hands get cold). If the assumption were true that blood is warm and therefore hands are warm, none of us would ever have cold hands because the blood would be able to return the calories lost to the environment instantaneously. In that area that "cools down," however, even the blood gives off heat and its temperature drops. Now, there are people who basically have excellent irrigation of the extremities, others who have less, just as there are people with higher or lower blood pressure. We conclude that with cold hands, everyone has their own time for them to warm up. I probably suffer from poor irrigation because on cold days my hands require biblical amounts of time to return to temperatures that allow me to play. To go to extremes, I believe frozen hands do not allow anyone to sit down and play the Etude Op. 8 from Chopin's Op. 10.

I remember one evening in particular (I was 15 years old) and I was returning from practice on my scooter. It was very, very cold; I remember very well that I had to be careful because it had snowed a few days before and there were still sheets of ice on the road. I forgot my gloves and when I arrived home I couldn't even open and close my hand because it was so frozen.

As mentioned, some people overcome this thermal gap sooner, others later. I belong largely to this second category, and for me, the hindrance is exactly the opposite of yours.

Mentaly, even in concert, I am always very relaxed and I have the concert clearly in my head even before stepping onto the stage. We played together in concert with Paolo, and he has seen me more than once even in solo concerts, being able to witness my psychological state of absolute serenity and relaxation. But this happens on the condition that my hands can physically do what my head tells them, as if there were a single thread. With cold hands, I cannot play, and this indeed generates anxiety for me. Therefore, before a concert, I always prefer to spend an hour (which costs me nothing) to warm up my hands well so as not to suffer from fears during the concert regarding the pieces or simply the technically more difficult measures.

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Reply 16 by francescochopin90

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Sometimes (I say "sometimes"!) the two things can be connected, but it's not necessarily so. An excess of adrenaline might prevent the extremities from being well-irrigated in favor of the "noble" organs ("fight or flight" preparation). I agree with you: every individual is different. For me, for example, the mental aspect is very important: it's what makes me fear the most!!! When I am relaxed, my organism reacts in a very harmonious way; but if I lack this predisposition, for various reasons, I freeze, I get absurd tensions, etc.

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