What is Missing?

I would say how to do that certain thing, what not to do, and given the modern generations... Patience, so much patience....

I got a little lost, surely they must have a method and must convey such methodology

I have always appreciated masters who, to those questions (what to do and how to do it), had various answers. Also because there isn't just one way to do things and there are infinite things to do...

Interesting contributions, to the recipe I would add progressivity in teaching. One cannot base their pedagogy on the fact that students are prodigies and make giant leaps; I am also convinced that a teacher emerges precisely where needed and not where they 'must', or merely has to sign off on a title or evaluate someone else's performance or idea (which perhaps is the role of a critic).

thallo wrote:

i have always appreciated masters who, to those questions (what to do and how to do it), had various answers. Also because there isn't just one way to do things and there are infinite things to do...

I like that as an answer, but my teacher's teacher always used to say (at least that's how he told me) that there is always the "princely" solution, the mediocre solution, and the poor solution... being a secondhand notion that I received in my youth, I have always (later) wondered if the "princely" solution was only one or not.

Or rather, my answer is "only one for each", so there are many. However, since the teacher is one, perhaps he can give a better solution ... what do you all think?

I hope this makes sense even if the matter seems tangled

wait and see what answer we are talking about and what question; the idea that there is a master path is typical of technical teaching. But what about musical teaching?

Every Master simply teaches what they know how to do... or at least they should. I don't believe a "methodology" exists. A Master who observes the student and draws from that observation the flaws to correct and the suggestions to give is, I believe, a good Master. A good Master is also one who accepts their own limits and those of the Student, not preventing them from playing in public (perhaps by choosing a repertoire suitable for the level reached). A Good Master is one who, with humility but with determination, asserts their own convictions and repeats them, creating cornerstones—those "few rules, but sound ones" that should prevail in all paths of knowledge acquisition. A good Master is also one who knows how to suggest to the Student certain classical and contemporary compositions that might be congenial to them. A Good Master is one who does not "bring water to 80 degrees and then put out the fire," but rather insists that "the water boils." A good Master is one who (I believe... always imply this word, once and for all) suggests to the Student also a "lifestyle" and a way to study. A good Master is one who knows how to energetically stimulate the Student, but who is ready to console them in their disappointments. A Good Master is one who knows how to review their own positions and errors. A good Master must also be a friend. A good Master must instill the "joy of Music" (as the eponymous book by Leonard Bernstein suggests!). A good Master is one who knows how to wait for the student's experiences to unfold. I believe (this time I repeat it) that there are many different good Masters.

The discussion is taking an interesting turn

thallo wrote:

the idea that there is a master way is typical of technical teaching. But what about musical teaching?

...but if technique is at the service of musicality...?

thallo wrote:

let's see what response we are talking about and what question

Perhaps getting practical helps: what are, on one hand, the many solutions or, on the other, the only solution for writing a CS of an S of an escape?

Example:

Student "respectable master, how do I write a sonata theme?"

Master "idiot student, I can only speak to you about the form, not the substance. And the same form is variable and adaptable. In addition to the hundreds of possible forms of a sonata theme, I would say there are hundreds of possible forms of a sonata and infinite melodic possibilities. So, rather than pointing out the main road to you, you walk, and I will scold you when you make a mistake" :-)

But for composition it is too easy... for instrument the matter is more specific...

Student "respectable master, what fingering should I put here?"

Master "this one. And it's the only possible one, the only credible one, and according to the physiological dictates of our school, the only one compatible with the structure of the human hand"

Student "thank you very much respectable master. Now... which of the 300 interpretations published on CD of this piece is the right one?"

Master "Well, I don't listen to CDs, and you shouldn't either; music is studied from scores (N.B. and this nonsense has been repeated to me dozens of times too...)".

While some masters consider the possibility that there exists ONLY ONE solution to certain specific problems (and perhaps they are right), there are musical problems that do not have a single solution. They are choices, and a master also educates regarding choices.

Ratatouille89 wrote:

what are on one hand the many solutions or on the other hand the only solution for writing a CS of an S of a fugue?

First of all, if in addition to the subject a stylistic constraint is also given, the field is so narrow that one can speak of the "best" countersubject. It happens that important composers (Bach, for example) have taken not only the subject, but also the countersubject, from previous composers... will it be just a tribute, or did they believe in that "better" version?

thallo wrote:

wait and see what response we are talking about and what question... the idea that there is a master way is typical of technical teaching. But what about musical teaching?

True, but technique is at the service of music and not an end in itself, so if in a certain situation that is the best technical solution, the composition will benefit from it also on a musical level.