What is your approach to studying?

It depends. To memorize, I have a different approach to studying pieces.

Anyway, I have several recorded study sessions. If you want, I can upload one for you to take a look at. Keep in mind that all the study sessions I record are on digital [pianos], so trills, double mordents etc., without double escapement and on a keyboard costing less than 500 euros, you get a good one every million tries. You are forced to articulate a lot. Regardless, digital is very good for learning notes and cleaning up passages. If you can manage to play trills, scales, and arpeggios decently on it, then you can play on any piano and everything feels easier; you only have to think about what you want to do. The notes on fast scales, the repeated notes, the broken octaves that used to drive you crazy on digital become child's play on an acoustic, practically like drinking a glass of water. Digital puts a pianist's technical skill to a very severe test. Despite this, there are things that objectively will never come out on a digital unless it is equipped with double escapement simulation. In that case, you can do a little bit more, but as a general rule, forget about getting the same response from the keyboard to your finger on a digital as on an acoustic, no matter how good it may be.

I should also have a video from when I was preparing concerts with Paolo. I usually record myself to listen back and understand what and where to improve. This that I am telling you is one of the videos from the early stages of studying for the four-hand concert with Paolo of Mozart's pieces. It might be interesting if you are asking about approaches... I'll find it and post it for you.

the approach changes a lot depending on the piece and its difficulties, so in my opinion, even when considering the same piece, the approach each of us has is very personal and varies according to the piece

But wanting to draw some general indications, the first thing I do is certainly to listen to it and listen to it again, score in hand, thousands of times played by all the performers who execute it. I try to have at least a clear formal structure and to have the various themes and how they develop clear in my head. Then I start reading it. Generally, if they are classical or classical-romantic pieces, I manage to get quite far just by reading; if they are more modern and less tonal, I study them by memory from the very first reading, focusing from the start on resolving technical problems (sometimes even with hands separate). And at the same time, I try to put the various parts together by sketching the first performances....during reading, I try to set up the piece by clearly giving it its style and correct phrasing already...

did you mean this by approach?

In my own small way, I also do a bit like Nancy: I listen to all the great performers; sometimes I try with hands separate, other times with both hands together memorizing the entire piece, as I am not able to play while reading directly from the sheet music. All of this is done on a good quality digital piano with wooden keys, double escapement simulation, etc., and I systematically use piano sound libraries; once I know the piece well enough, I play it on the acoustic one.

Frequentng this forum has helped me grow as a pianist thanks to the suggestions from all of you.

P.S. while I am writing, I am listening to Simone practicing at the piano. For me, this is another lesson in how a new piece is prepared.

Beautiful video thumbnail, I didn't put it there, it was randomly picked by YouTube. I would title it... "Man vs. Sheet Music".

The sheet music always wins

Unfortunately it's true! A phrase as real as "the computer is a fast idiot".

Very useful Simone..thanks.

What piano do you practice on? This sounds great.

I need to purchase a digital piano soon because I'm tired of having the acoustic piano always out of tune.

The keyboard is a Yamaha P95, a very basic model, without double escapement, plastic keys and laughable mechanics with weights at the end of the key. On this keyboard I have prepared the monsters: Chopin's fourth ballad, Chopin's studies from op. 10, Liszt's étude d'exécution "un sospiro", Rachmaninoff's musical moment no. 4 from op. 16. Just to demonstrate that even on a keyboard like this one you can study without spending thousands and thousands of euros. Of course, it is always extremely important to have an acoustic piano. The digital keyboard should only be a fallback and nothing more, so if you want to get a digital keyboard, welcome, but always keep your acoustic piano as your primary instrument, I recommend this to you WARMLY!!!

The sound you hear should be a Galaxy library, I don't remember, but it seems familiar to me, it should be the Galaxy Vintage D. In short, I used the keyboard connected via MIDI to the computer which replaces the MIDI data with samples from the library (if you are interested, there are dozens of posts where we have discussed these topics).

This is a post that I had started, but then I had to go AWOL from the forum for personal and work reasons.

Thank you for sharing the video; it is certainly a great starting point to understand how one should work, and I must say that working this way is very beautiful (at least for you, since you manage to do it).

I see that you often slow down the tempo to fix fingerings and notes, and immediately afterward, you bring them back to the tempo of the piece without errors.

Unfortunately, I don't have this type of learning process. In the more difficult measures, I need to stop, do everything slowly, and increase the speed little by little; otherwise, I never get it right, perhaps also due to my technique, which is certainly not like yours—which is surely high-level and very crystalline.

It's interesting how you also always seek clarity of notes. I noticed that in Mozart you use little or no pedal. Is this a choice for practice purposes, or do you generally tend not to use much pedal in Mozart?

Of course, it is strange to think that you managed to prepare repertoire of that level on that 'piece of junk', nothing less than Chopin's fourth ballade, which I think I have heard, and Rachmaninoff, which on the other hand I don't think I have ever heard.

Do you have a recording to post? I love Rachmaninoff so much, but given my level, he is an author I can definitely forget about...

But think... the P 95.

I recently went to purchase a digital piano but I tell you... I was very disappointed with the Roland F 140 r. Among other things, it has keys with a wood-style print... then I tried the Clavinova.. but I would ask for at least double escapement and the possibility of finding sounds elsewhere and being able to insert them via MIDI (if I'm not mistaken, I had heard one of your Debussy recordings on a sampling of a Steinway from the early 900s or something similar.)

I noticed that you have to spend at least 2000 euros to get something decent.

In all this chaos, what do you recommend?

Regarding practice, I liked your session and I like the way you practice, intended in this sense (head in a box... so to speak... very acute, concentrated, clear, rational) very similar to how I used to practice... what beautiful times... they don't even remind me of eating... I was preparing for my 5th year and studying 10 hours a day. Sooner or later I will return to my ways...

With this method, you see results every day and then with the metronome clicks, you can see the maturation of the piece with your own eyes.

I noticed something that I think would be important to discuss..

During practice, I also often, when repeating a phrase or a small portion or a trill/ornament in general... I make an error on one note... and then I repeat and repeat but I make small errors before finally arriving at the clean phrase..

My teacher always said strictly... you must not allow yourself these errors... and I think he associated making an error during practice with the process of memorizing it... or rather, to explain myself better... I noticed that if I hit a wrong note during practice and then arrive at the clean phrase through sheer force of studying it; in a moment of nervousness during a future performance, it resurfaces... meaning that every time you make a mistake, your brain memorizes that error which, like a file, leaves its trace even if it is later deleted by subsequent repetitions when you study the passage well and without errors.

Do you have any advice on this? Because in my opinion, it is a very important thing.. I think that if you miss a note in a phrase you are studying, the mistake doesn't come out randomly... meaning the finger ends up on that note because perhaps it was the natural disposition of your brain (perhaps the correct note was too far away or sounded more consonant to the ear, etc., etc.) and therefore, being a wrong but "natural" gesture for your brain, it is memorized a thousand times better.... becoming very annoying in the long run..

There are a thousand examples, like the classic note that comes out wrong and every now and then at regular intervals pops up again..

Forgive me if my approach is a bit too conceptual and overthought, but I believe it is an important aspect of practice.

I have proof of this with roads... I drive a lot and if I take the wrong road to an appointment... maybe after three years or two years returning to that area, I am inclined to take the wrong road again... do you know what I mean?

Let me know because I am very interested in the relationship between brain/learning/practice and memorization.

Thank you for your patience.

@Stefanus

In Mozart, I usually use very little pedal in the first and third beats of sonatas. I allow myself a bit more only in adagios. The Mozart sound I have in mind is very crystalline, and too much pedal only serves to excessively muddy it, making passages confusing, especially when playing low notes. In fact, I categorically try to avoid using the pedal in Mozart for the bass parts.

Regarding Rachmaninoff, I have a digital recording from many years ago (I think I was even still preparing my fifth year), only now am I picking up that piece again. I can post it if you want.

@Fabio73

I understand your reasoning... The mistakes I make are normally due to a fingering that I have yet to find (the Mozart pieces you listened to in this study session were, in fact, in the reading phase). If you notice, in the video, I often slow down significantly to find the correct fingering. Making a mistake on a scale is not a problem; one must see how it affects what comes next. If you don't feel comfortable with the right fingering at the end of a scale, there is a risk of making subsequent mistakes; therefore, during the preliminary study phase, I pay very close attention to fingering and immediately try it at speed. Trying it at speed immediately is justified by the fact that the fingering transcribed when playing slowly is not necessarily the correct one at sustained speed. This aspect is of fundamental importance in Chopin studies, for example. If you lose your fingering, you're screwed and risk compromising the entire performance. I remember, as one example among many, in the study Op. 10 No. 8 there is a passage on the third page where you find yourself with the right hand having to play Do - Sib - La - La - Sib respectively with fingering 3 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 1. This 3 on the La and 1 on the Sib can seem very uncomfortable at a slow speed, but at speed, one realizes it is the only comfortable solution possible. The fingering then repeats in subsequent technical cells by analogy. In the following video, you can find it at minute 1:12...

Normally, once the fingering is found, it is unlikely that I will repeat the mistake during performance; however, obviously, mistakes are always lurking even if one tries to study as much as possible to reach a flawless performance. It has happened to me to make mistakes in concert in some places where I had never made a mistake even during the study phase. These mistakes of distraction, so to speak "stochastic," we must accept them. We are too tied to the experience of listening to records. It is interesting, instead, to listen to the old repertoire; Chopin studies recorded by Cortot come to mind, where a mistake is always around the corner. With modern technologies, repeating, cutting, and pasting parts of a piece has become child's play, but at the time, the same thing was not so easy to do on tapes. One might then wonder if the great pianists of the past were not actually that great, seeing as they make many more mistakes than those of our generation. Music is not about making a perfect performance; music is poetry. This is the true fundamental element that serves as a yardstick for judgment. If in the music I listen to there is great poetry, then I don't care if a note was missed.

Listen, for example, to the mistakes in this Cortot performance of the study Op. 10 No. 1.

An another example of high poetry...

After listening to these masterpieces of poetry, does it still make sense to talk about a few missed notes?

Returning to us, also consider that the keyboard I have is not very suited to high speeds. The P95 has weighted keys but no internal mechanism, simply metal levers that give weight to the key; for this reason, managing to do trills like on a grand piano is truly very difficult. It is necessary to articulate a lot, but at sustained speeds, the finger-to-key distances are reduced, and having to exaggerate them to produce a clean trill is certainly unnatural. This is one of the reasons (among many) why I always recommend opting for digital only as a second instrument, as I believe the acoustic piano is irreplaceable and indispensable for a pianist. One cannot think of preparing an entire concert on a digital without going through an acoustic one. Beyond the different technical "familiarity," there is an entirely different series of reasons, especially regarding the nuances of colors, dynamics, and sound that are impossible to achieve on a digital. Therefore, in my opinion, the digital is an excellent tool for learning notes, but as far as the search for sound and pianistic interpretation is concerned, it is completely inadequate.

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

Thank you very much for the detail.

I fully agree, and then who can I bring into this?? The greatest... Cortot... When I was studying Chopin's preludes, I listened to her, even before the exam..

Unfortunately, many do not understand the flaws of the recording... I would almost go so far as to say that error does not exist in a live performance... do you understand what I mean? If a person in a panic comes to tell you, while swallowing a few words, that the house is burning, I think no one would dwell on the lost consonants or vowels in the speech, but would immediately grasp the meaning of the drama, namely... the house is burning.

It is the recordings that always present us with the same error, always placed at the same point. Live, an error made because perhaps the performer was mentally preparing a marvel for the next passage, is forgotten the very next second...

Music is a moment, it is a beat, an instant, fire...

The piano, as beautiful as it is, is a dead machine without someone to give it voice, and it is precisely this passion of ours, trembling, poetic... as you were saying... that makes it live best.

I will start posting something concrete so that at least you can give me some advice.

Thank you.

P.S. Let me know anyway, in your opinion, which full set might be good for playing in the evening and especially for recording files onto a USB. Mainly also for the forum. If I were to post something now, I would only have a few files recorded from an iPhone.

I forgot..... hats off for the Chopin performance.

Well done, brilliant, fluid.. above all, excellent awareness of the construction of the bass lines (in a harmonic sense).

A dream for me to carry out a piece like this.

Sincere compliments.

Regarding USB recording, honestly I have never had the need to do it; if we are talking about MIDI instead, practically all keyboards have a MIDI interface that you can use to connect to a PC and use a DAW to record the incoming MIDI data. Afterwards, you can choose a library of your choice to match each MIDI datum with a sample. In practice, the sampler acts as a substitute: it replaces the MIDI data with the respective sample at the respective dynamics, having it processed in real-time by the player. There are probably also keyboards that allow you to record to USB, but honestly, it is a parameter that I had never been asked to take into consideration when choosing a keyboard.

The choice of keyboard then depends on the budget and is very personal regarding mechanics and sounds; they must be tested. Certainly, knowing the budget, one can be directed towards top-of-the-line models, but there are many discussions here on the forum where we have tackled these topics head-on, which you will have no trouble finding by doing a simple search.

Thank you for the compliment on the Chopin study, I am happy that you liked it.

Yes, yes, right ....I put a USB in the Roland F-140..to have a way to record without having to connect too many machines (computers) to the piano and quickly upload files to the forum.

I would like to take stock of my learning situation.

Maybe I'll post some exercises to get an assessment of my levels.

At this point in my studies, I need to start studying some more important pieces; maybe it wouldn't be bad to do it together.

To get an idea of technique, are scales enough? Or I don't know... I wouldn't know where to begin.

Something will come to mind. At the very least, as soon as I can, I'll summarize the pieces I had completed when I stopped years ago.