... Which Baton?

HVK wrote:

Good morning, could someone point me to specialized or reliable sites that deal with this item? Does it need to have particular characteristics in order to be appreciated?

http://www.animando.com/

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There is only the embarrassment of choice, there are the "original Mollard sticks"

See also

http://www.thomann.d...sori.html?ls=10

I have had a good experience.

HVK wrote:

Excuse the amateur question, why is the baton used?

...perhaps one must look at the origins, think about what the first violin had in hand? Exactly a bow, which when raised looks just like a rudimentary baton.

Consider that the first violin progressively assumed the role of conductor... and I think the birth of the baton is due to this aspect, and anyway it responds to the need to make the gesture more visible and clear.

Rotore wrote:

...perhaps one must look to the origins, think about what the first violin had in hand? Precisely a bow, which when raised looks just like a rudimentary baton.

Consider that the first violin progressively assumed the role of conductor... and I think the birth of the baton is due to this aspect, and in any case it responds to the need to make the gesture more visible and clear.

Sorry, I am not a conductor, but this thing about the small bow does not ring true to me, at least not as a widespread method; until the early 1800s, direction was entrusted to a concertmaster: "I want to stay at the harpsichord, conduct the arias!", wrote a mature Mozart to his father. In the symphonic music of the Classical period (but also Baroque), instead, there was simply a figure who "beat the time" with a stick on the floor (and, even here, a letter from Leopold Mozart tells that the young son "beat the time" in the performance of his own symphonies). Among other things, and forgive me if I don't remember who right now, there was a famous Baroque composer who died precisely due to complications from a wound he inflicted on his foot while beating that stick (Luca Ciammarughi spoke about this on Radio Classica).

I suppose the modern baton has the task of amplifying the sensitivity of the gesture, rather than simply making it visible.

Some scholars might know if the first true directions of Beethoven's works, conducted by his teacher Antonio Salieri (among the first conductors in a modern sense), used the aid of a baton or not; I have read that there are chronicles regarding this.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

until the early 1800s, direction was entrusted to a concertmaster:

To a precise question... Based on which process and causes does the transition occur between the “Harpsichord Maestro” and the “Orchestra Conductor”?

A very well-prepared friend answered me:

In the mid-1700s, there were two "conducting" figures, namely the harpsichord maestro and the first violin. The former was preferably engaged in vocal programs, such as masses, oratorios, or operas; the latter in exclusively instrumental programs, except for the fact that composers

such as Mozart and Haydn used to play the harpsichord in the orchestra while conducting their symphonies (which were therefore played with basso continuo, even where not specified in the score).

In the early 1800s, the figure of the batteur de mesure, born in France, also consolidated: a "conductor" with a roll of paper that marked the time, especially in the presence of very large ensembles, adding to the harpsichord maestro and the first violin (which from a certain point forward

is called "first violin conductor").

In 1784, Haydn conducts The Creation assisted by a harpsichord maestro and two batteurs who governed an orchestral mass of unusual proportions. Therefore, in reality, the figure of the orchestra conductor does not derive from the harpsichord maestro, but from the first violin, who at a certain point, more or less towards the middle of the 1800s, will even be spared the effort of playing.

Even on the terminology front, it is interesting to note that the "first violin conductor" was also called "first violin of the concerto," because in addition to conducting, he had to play the more demanding solo passages; at his side sat the "concertino," whose task was to perform the solo passages

when the "first violin conductor" was too busy conducting the orchestra to play; behind them, therefore on a second music stand, sat the "spalla" (shoulder/leader), whose task was to lead the section when the "conductor" was conducting the orchestra and the concertino was playing the "solos."

From the harpsichord maestro (read "maestro di cappella") instead, the figure of the substitute maestro derives directly—the one in the theater who deals with preparing the singers, exactly the role assigned to the kapellemeister, until the total extinction of his directorial role.

I remember it as if it were yesterday; perhaps it was the first question I ever asked in a forum 😉

So when books say (usually speaking of the Romantic period) "[...] the strengthening of the orchestra sees the insertion of a new figure: 'The conductor' who replaces the 'Harpsichord player' [...]"

in reality, 'replacement' does not refer to a transformation but rather to its definitive disappearance in favor of the figure of the first violin (which in the meantime had undergone its own evolution).

CromaDiBrera wrote:

In symphonic music of the Classical period (but also Baroque), however, there was simply a figure who "beat the time" with a stick on the floor (and, even here, a letter from Leopold Mozart tells us that his young son "beat the time" during the performance of his own symphonies). Among other things, and forgive me if I don't remember who right now, there was a famous Baroque composer who died precisely due to complications from a wound he inflicted on his foot while beating with that stick (Luca Ciammarughi spoke about this on Radio Classica).

This part is interesting, as is the quote from Abate Faria 😉

Thank you

Rotore wrote:

http://www.animando.com/

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Write as search key: Bacchette

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There is only the embarrassment of choice, there are the "original Mollard sticks"

See also

http://www.thomann.d...sori.html?ls=10

I found them to be good.

Question, but is there a size?"}

The stick is not necessary ... but it might make sense