F. Chopin

Why did Chopin compose almost exclusively for the piano?

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danielescarpetti

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Opening post by danielescarpetti

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Hi Gilda, happy to meet you in this forum!

I decided to insert this topic within your wonderful idea of opening a forum on Chopin because it seemed like a real shame to let fall an assertion you made to support your cause. Here it is: «Chopin is a great... he is not just a great piano composer... but he is a great composer. I am certain that if he had not died so young and had not been so humble, he would have also composed operas and symphonies.»

Now, Gilda – surely your name or nick makes one think more of Verdi than Chopin! - while waiting for others, perhaps much more qualified than myself, to eventually have their say on the matter if they wish, I would like to try to give you my opinion.

The discussion regarding what many great composers who died very prematurely would have composed is a bit of a constant in music history. A Schubert who died at only 29, after composing immense masterpieces; a Mozart at almost 36; a Pergolesi at only 26; but even Beethoven himself who died at 56 – let's consider that Cherubini died at 83 – but with still so many ideas in his head, starting from a tenth symphony of his, what else could they have given us beyond everything they have left us? Obviously the question is rhetorical and can never have an answer, but, quite rightly, we like to ask it.

This question also applies to Chopin, who died at only 39 and was certainly «a great composer» - indeed a genius, why not say it openly – and not just a «great piano composer», even if he composed very little for the orchestra, and nothing for the theater.

In Chopin's case, without being presumptuous and without thereby diminishing his importance and greatness, I think one thing can be said with extreme certainty: he would certainly have done other splendid things for the piano, but he would never have written music for orchestra alone - nor even more for piano and orchestra – and even less for the theater.

Why am I sure of this, Gilda? Because Chopin composed his only works for piano and orchestra between 1827 and 1830 and, therefore, in his youth. Then – apart from Opuses 3 and 65 for cello and piano, the 17 Polish songs Opus 74, and other chamber music pieces, with the piano always present nonetheless – everything else was for the piano.

What caused this absolutely reluctant attitude toward composing for orchestra is a question that remains highly debated. All the hypotheses made find their own foundation and validity. Here I want to propose two, essentially in antithesis, which however, despite this, contain undoubted truth.

The first is that of Claudio Capriola and Giorgio Dolza, co-authors for Einaudi of a booklet containing all of Chopin's works titled: “Chopin. Gentlemen, the catalogue is this”: «To us, it seems correct to believe that, above all, our musician was convinced of the fact that the piano, the piano alone, was enough to contain his entire sonic, poetic, and expressive universe».

The second is from Milan Kundera, a great Czech writer of both novels and essays, as well as a musician and son of a musician: «It would be interesting to examine all nineteenth-century music as a constant attempt to overcome its structural dichotomy. I would like to cite, for example, what I would call the Chopin strategy. (...) Chopin shuns large-scale composition and writes almost exclusively short pieces gathered in collections. (...) (The few exceptions confirm the rule: his concertos for piano and orchestra are mediocre). He thus moved against the current, because in his time the basic criterion for evaluating a composer's importance was the creation of a symphony, a concerto, or a quartet. But by precisely withdrawing from this criterion, Chopin created a work that is perhaps the only one of its era not to have aged and that will remain alive in its entirety, almost without exception.»

From my point of view, I substantially agree with both these statements – except for the final part of Kundera's, but that would be an entirely different discussion that would take us far from here – because, even though I know saying this can create strong criticism, I am convinced that Chopin, in his works with orchestra, was substantially mediocre; and this is despite the two concertos still enjoying great popularity today among classical music audiences.

To frame all this, it is necessary, as always, to review and contextualize the music history of that period, and especially that relating to the piano concerto and solo piano music. And so, as always, I will go on a long rant. Amen and excuse me!

In reality, it is - as with all post-Beethovenian music - necessary to refer back to Beethoven and his very great and absolutely imposing legacy.

In the context of the history of the concerto for"}

Piano and orchestra, with Beethoven that revolution was completed, already well present in the Fourth Opus 58 of the strengthening of the symphonic aspect on one hand and that of the soloistic aspect on the other, seeking their ideal integration: the soloist no longer overlaps and accepts to be treated as a section of the orchestra.

After Beethoven, starting from Schubert himself, who was an absolutely multifaceted and brilliant composer but in whose vast catalog full of every good thing there are no concertos for solo instrument and orchestra? The right answer was given, in my opinion, by the musicologist Alfred Einstein: "One could imagine that he would have been able to continue cultivating that genre in the way Mozart felt it, who still treats the piano as primus inter pares, in perfect balance with the orchestra, without assuming any dramatic function (...) but after Beethoven, whose concertos had already been composed since 1809, this was no longer possible. After Beethoven, the only possible formula was the dramatic opposition between the solo instrument and the orchestra."

For Schubert, for his musical conception still anchored in various respects to the end of the 1700s, it would have been impossible to continue on that path.

After Beethoven, the concertos of various composers like Cramer, Moscheles, etc., who followed the salon style made of very frivolous and light scores so fashionable at the time, are today substantially unknown.

But it can well be said that even great composers like Chopin and Mendelssohn did not know how to go beyond these models, so much so that Robert Schumann, in his capacity as a music critic – he was one of the first to hold this role within the history of music – did not fail to criticize them harshly. Regarding his friend Felix Mendelssohn's Second Piano Concerto, he wrote: "It belongs to his lighter creations, composed in haste, just like those that the old masters wrote when they were resting from their great creations."

In reality, there was a problem for Sonatas as well, and this, precisely because of the difficulty of saying something new after Beethoven's last ones. After the Beethovenian and Schubertian piano-solo corpora, composers oriented themselves towards shorter, single-movement piano genres: studies, polonaises, mazurkas, preludes, etc.: Chopin himself included only 3 sonatas – of which the 2nd and 3rd are absolute masterpieces – in his catalog. The only post-Beethovenian composer who composed 9 sonatas was Prokofiev.

That said, the fact remains that Chopin, with his "solo" piano, was the composer capable of summarizing the infinite, expressing the language of feeling, giving voice to the unspeakable, and this, without pretending to describe or illustrate anything."

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Reply 2 by Carlos

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Perhaps it would be enough to remember that the main purpose for which Chopin wrote was educational. And he taught the piano.

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Reply 3 by danielescarpetti

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Errata corrige:

After Beethoven, starting with Schubert himself, who was an absolutely multifaceted and brilliant composer, but in whose vast catalog full of every good thing, there are no concertos for solo instrument and orchestra?

This part of my writing must be rewritten and understood as follows:

Why is it that after Beethoven, starting with Schubert himself, an absolutely multifaceted and brilliant composer, in his vast catalog, full of every good thing, there are no concertos for solo instrument and orchestra?

I apologize!

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Reply 4 by danielescarpetti

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Carlos wrote:

Perhaps it would suffice to remember that the main purpose for which Chopin wrote was educational. And he taught the piano.

Yes, of course, this too can be a reason!

But in itself it does not explain why, despite the repeated 'insistence' of his father, Nicolas, who invited him to finish a concerto for piano and orchestra, started in 1831, he abandoned this project, reworking it in 1841 for solo piano and calling it Allegro de concert Opus 46.

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Reply 5 by GILDA

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His father Nicolas wanted him to write operas, his teacher Elsner wanted him to write operas and urged him to do so soon, telling him that this was his nature. He was convinced that his genius would lead him to this. In a letter, they had a serious discussion on the subject. Elsner almost became irritated seeing Chopin's reluctance to compose operas. He replied with a letter full of great humility... his humility was disarming... he did not want to write operas because he did not feel ready and said that before doing so he had to study much and compose much, and that certain things must be done after much experience, and he began to provide Elsner with many examples. He was almost irritated by his teacher's insistence and silenced him by saying that for the moment he would focus only on the piano. However, he did not say that he would never compose operas.... A thought of mine (but entirely my own) makes me think and perhaps hope that his great love for "bel canto", for opera, might perhaps one day (obviously if he had not died so soon) have pushed him to venture into this as well? ....who knows!! We will never know, as you say... perhaps at that moment, in that era, the piano still had much to say and perhaps it was the form that best suited Chopin's feeling, thought, idea... to him belonged the brilliant perception of the future pianistic power yet to be discovered. Anyway, as far as Art and Chopin's genius are concerned, I agree with Liszt's thought, namely that art does not exist to put its resources into operation as resources, or to assert its forms as forms; it is evident that the artist has no reason to use them unless those forms and those resources are useful or necessary for the expression of his thought and feeling. Unless the nature of his genius and that of the subjects to be chosen demand those forms or require those resources, he sets them aside just as he lets the flute and the bass clarinet, the bass drum or the viola d'amore rest when he does not know what to do with them. It is certainly not the use of certain effects that are more difficult to achieve than others that attests to the artist's genius. His genius reveals itself in the feeling that makes it sing; it is measured by its nobility, and is definitively attested in a union between feeling and form, such that one cannot be imagined without the other. It is unlikely that another composer in possession of such high harmonic and melodic faculties as Chopin would have resisted composing for orchestra, and Chopin was harmed by this, by the importance of his fame... but I admire him even more and discover him even more as an "Artist" for that unique concern for "beauty for its own sake" which made him disdain considering only those composers who had left at least half a dozen works or symphonies to be worthy of great name—this common way of evaluating "genius" (which is essentially a quality) by the quantity and dimensions of the works. From what I have been able to understand about Chopin by reading Chopin, it is that he fled from all this, seeking something much deeper. His ideals were different... One of his statements struck me greatly, a phrase said to one of his pupils (Mme Streicher): "- ....The final goal is simplicity. After having exhausted all difficulties, after having played an immense quantity of notes and notes, that which emerges as the ultimate seal of art is simplicity with all its charm. He who wants to reach it immediately will never reach it; one cannot start from the end. To reach this goal, one must have studied much, even immensely; it is not an easy thing. (F. Chopin)".

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Reply 6 by GILDA

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Another consideration that I forgot to mention is responding to the remarks of M. Kundera (Czech writer) regarding Chopin's mediocre concerts. Perhaps it is because he is a writer and not a musician that he considers them such? I have other sources... perhaps a bit more reliable than this Kundera. I am quoting a critique by Liszt regarding this subject: "........we shall cite the Adagio of the second concerto, for which he (Chopin) had a marked predilection and which he delighted in repeating frequently. The accessory designs belong to the author's most beautiful manner; the main phrase is of a marvelous breadth; it alternates with a recitative that proposes the minor tone and acts as its antistrophe. This whole piece is of an ideal perfection. Its feeling, now radiant and now full of compassion, brings to mind a magnificent landscape flooded with light, some fortunate valley of Temple, which would have been destined to be the setting for a painful tale, for a heartbreaking scene. One might call it an irreparable misfortune that strikes the human heart in the face of an incomparable splendor of nature. This contrast is sustained by a fusion of tones, by a transmutation of attenuated tints, which ensure that nothing contrasting or harsh comes into dissonance with the moving impression that said contrast has produced, and which makes joy melancholy and at the same time soothes pain......(.Liszt)"

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Reply 7 by Carlos

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I warmly suggest reading a very interesting book, released not long ago, namely Chopin as seen by his students, by Jean-Jacques Eigeldinger, published by Astrolabio. A fundamental text for understanding many aspects of Chopin's poetics and many of the reasons you are discussing.

http://www.lafeltrinelli.it/products/9788834015834/Chopin_visto_dai_suoi_allievi/Jean-Jaques_Eigeldinger.html

http://www.lafeltrinelli.it/products/9788834015834/Chopin_visto_dai_suoi_allievi/Jean-Jaques_Eigeldinger.html

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Reply 8 by Pablo

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Is it not worth also asking how Chopin lived his historical/social/ethical period, according to which he saw the pf as an emerging instrument?

Ultimately, he was a great researcher, and research takes time.

Furthermore, he frequented salons; it is difficult to see a large orchestra there... don't you think?

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Reply 9 by Carlos

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Pablo wrote:

Furthermore, he frequented salons; it was difficult to see a large orchestra... don't you think?

Exactly, and the next step should be to ask why he frequented salons and not large concert halls? Liszt, for example, also frequented salons, as did Schubert, but both wrote wonderful symphonic pages... so, what was Chopin's reason?

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Reply 10 by rstrauss

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a gamble ... as much as one can ...

as already anticipated, Chopin wrote for didactic purposes, but in my opinion he wrote almost everything just for the piano because that's simply what he wanted.

A Chopin was not interested in the orchestra; in fact, in the few pieces with written orchestration, the piano is dominant and the orchestra accompanies.

We reach the maximum level of orchestral submission with the 'andante spianato', where the orchestra could quite well be 'ad libitum'

Reading what is available on Chopin, one perceives a person who did not love crowds and perhaps, I say perhaps, salons were more suited to his character and therefore solo piano music was more appropriate,
e manageable, and perhaps earned him a little extra.

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Reply 11 by Carlos

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rstrauss wrote:

Reading what is written about Chopin, one perceives a person who did not love crowds and perhaps, I say perhaps, salons were more suited to his character and therefore solo piano music was more appropriate (...)

Exactly! Chopin detested the public concert, above all because he was extremely shy, unlike his contemporary Liszt (the true inventor of the recital). Chopin preferred intimate settings and, in addition to the fact that most of the pieces he wrote had a pedagogical purpose, he undoubtedly preferred a small audience. It should be remembered that he himself created the two splendid quintet versions with piano for his two Concertos for pf. and orchestra, precisely so that he could perform them in a more intimate setting.

Chopin considered himself, for the most part, a piano teacher (this emerges in the book I mentioned above, Chopin as seen by his students) and never considered himself a concert performer (so much so that, as is well known, he wrote many of his Etudes for himself). In addition to this, evidently, he never felt the need to delve into symphonic writing, nor, among other things, does his piano writing reveal anything in this sense—something that, on the other hand, cannot be said of his illustrious colleagues, such as Schumann, Mendelssohn, Liszt, and later Brahms; namely, all composers whose piano writing, more or less, allowed a glimpse of an "encroachment" (said in absolutely positive terms, quite clearly) toward orchestral language. Not by chance, Chopin is perhaps the only composer whose piano music is practically impossible to orchestrate.

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Reply 12 by Gerardo

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"I am certain that if he had not died so young and had not been so humble, he would have also composed operas and symphonies.""

Chopin was an eclectic composer... even if he had lived to 80, he would not have composed for orchestra. Although with age many things can change and in the end you find, for example, Stravinsky, who would challenge himself with dodecaphony

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Reply 13 by lory

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@Carlos

I take the liberty of disagreeing, at least regarding the artistic aspect... Chopin, rather than being shy, was very insecure; this is clearly evident from many of his notebooks, in which he recounts how he was always hesitant about the success many of his pieces would achieve compared to those of his fellow composers of the time.

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Reply 14 by Frank

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The thought of a musician like Messiaen:

«I love Chopin, as much as a composer-pianist as a colorist, because for me he is a great colorist. Because he wrote only for piano, did he really have to confine himself to a small box?»…

[sAMUEL, C. (1998), cit., p. 191]

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