Why do you think pieces always end with a rallentando? Is it a sort of "convention" between performer and listener? Are there "musical" reasons why it is always mandatory? Are there historical reasons?
What truly "surprises" me is the fact that generally everything is done to not "reveal" surprises... but the ending is always the "most predictable one," forgive my exaggeration.
That music is natural is an urban legend that refuses to die.
In reality, the rallentando at every cadence is a convention with strong historical roots, due to the fact that dissonance and the resolution of dissonance are movements made to be felt clearly. You can also add that in the final cadences of great contrapuntal compositions, there are often more movements than usual, suspensions, turns, and so everything must be expressed clearly...
For what is not contrapuntal, besides the usual thought that you must "anticipate" the salient moments to prevent them from going unnoticed, there are aesthetic reasons linked to the tonal system. Especially in sonata form theory, the exposition, development, and recapitulation sections (as well as the coda) often have side-by-side "preferred" temporal structures. This is pure performance practice history, which is a discipline that has mixed tradition, taste, and theorization, and which has often been driven forward more by performer-conductors than by composer-theorists. Approaching the sonata as a triadic form of thesis-antithesis-synthesis: the exposition, and especially the exposition of the first theme, is played in strict time; the development, which is tonally centrifugal, is played accelerando; the recapitulation is played in strict time but gradually slows down, as if to symbolize a large temporal arc (with the apex shifted forward, however), symbolizing tension and resolution. The coda, with its various final cadences, in short, eases all tensions, including temporal ones.
Aside from sharing Thallo's considerations, if we talk about the last 3 notes (I am asking Marziano), it can be discussed, but there are various pieces that generally end in accelerando or in any case in "crescendo" (in a broad sense and not dynamic).
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Tap
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Reply 5 by Tap
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Thinking about large structures (a concerto, a sonata, a symphony), do you think this discussion can also be broadened by considering the succession of movements? Even if the last movement is always the "fastest" one.
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Carlos
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Reply 6 by Carlos
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I will follow the debate closely and if I have something interesting to say regarding it (but I doubt it: Claudio has already said much more than I knew...) I will not miss it. But, since we are talking about rallentando/accelerando, please (!!!) accelerando is written with only one "l".
...it happens to everyone to write something nonsense, you want to know the best part, I use Microsoft autocorrect to avoid posting illegible posts full of typos ... it accepts it as correct but obviously it is wrong, because 'accelerare' derives from "celere" so it must be that way, as you rightly pointed out
A me è uscita così...scrivendo di fretta ...sarà uno dei miei tanti refusi
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Arzigovolato3
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Reply 10 by Arzigovolato3
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Speaking of practice, my theory and solfeggio professor always used to say that performing a rallentando where the notation already provides for it is an error.
To be clear, sometimes it happens that the rallentando is written, so one should not slow down during the performance.
and meanwhile I think that Carlos himself is a qualified person to talk about these things.
Like, just for a change, I believe Celibidache said and re-said things about the tempos to be taken in sonata forms, right? As a listener, I have always greatly appreciated the "courage" of maintaining the right tempo even in the final cadences, but by instinct and experience, I know that there are almost physical resistances.
But before expanding the discussion here, I need to think about it for a bit...
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Carlos
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Reply 12 by Carlos
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thallo wrote:
meanwhile I think that Carlos himself is a qualified person to talk about these things.
Like, just for a change, I believe Celibidache said and re-said things about the tempos to be taken in sonata forms, right? As a listener, I have always greatly appreciated the "courage" of maintaining the right tempo even in the final cadences, but by instinct and experience, I know that there are almost physical resistances.
But before expanding the discussion here, I need to think about it for a bit...
Too kind. In reality, I am quite "Taliban" when it comes to maintaining a regular tactus within large forms (I don't much like "tug-of-war," if you know what I mean), but regarding the final rallentando, I let myself be guided very much by "instinct," as you say, based on how the composer "liquidates" the harmonic discourse: I wouldn't be able to rationalize it or provide an a priori criterion... but don't spread that around too much, okay?
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riccardoM
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Reply 13 by riccardoM
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some of Glenn Gould's interpretations of Bach end with a false rallentando and then actually finish at a faster tempo, for example the C minor fugue from The Well-Tempered Clavier or the prelude from the second English Suite, or in Chopin, the second nocturne. Off the top of my head, I would say that 76% of the pieces end with a rallentando while the remainder is at a faster tempo. I can enjoy a good dish in small bites to prolong the duration of the course, or I can devour the last cherry in one single bite....de gustibus
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Carlos
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Reply 14 by Carlos
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riccardoM wrote:
some of Gould's Bach interpretations end with a false rallentando and then actually finish at a faster tempo, for example the C minor fugue from The Well-Tempered Clavier or the prelude from the second English Suite, or in Chopin, the second nocturne. By feel, I would say that 76% of the pieces end rallentando while the remainder is at a faster tempo.
Would you mean that some pieces end in accelerando? Are you sure?
Surely some of Petrali's pieces are in accelerando, I will provide references ...but not certainly the very last notes.
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Carlos
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Reply 16 by Carlos
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Silbermann wrote:
Surely some of Petrali's pieces are in accelerando, I will provide references ...but certainly not the very last notes.
D'accordo, ma non è pertinente: sarebbe in ogni caso l'eccezione e sarebbe un effetto scritto e richiesto dall'autore. Chi ha posto il quesito si chiede come mai di norma terminiamo un brano con un rallentando, anche se non viene espressamente indicato. Il fatto che un autore indichi accelerando (una "l", lo ribadisco, scusate l'insistenza) in un suo pezzo non cambia il senso della domanda di Marziano.
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Marziano
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Reply 17 by Marziano
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Carlos is right, but actually to this day I didn't imagine there were cases different from the one reported by Silbermann... and surely there will be others.
The point is, that even in the final accelerando or crescendo, it seems to me to understand that there is always a slight rallentando in the final notes... so the thing is at least congenital.
As Thallo was explaining, a complex matter... I continue to read you passionately.