1903 Bechstein Grand Piano

They tell me it has been retuned, the hammer rail replaced (they assure me it is IDENTICAL TO THE PREVIOUS ONE) and the mechanics checked.

pianoexpert wrote:

I said to tap the tuning pins, perhaps because tuning stability was discussed. One must always see if there is room to do it and if a good result is obtained (a sample of two or three pins is taken). Anyway, it's a shame it's in Turin... otherwise I would have been curious to see it. I only feel sorry for the work that could have been kept and attempted to be restored. Then I don't remember if the hammer rail was replaced.... It is certain that such an old piano should have new strings. With a check of the soundboard tension and new strings and tuning pins, it could make a great leap forward. Then a look at the type of action. See if it is a linked action (that is, if the key is linked to the capstan by a joint). The state of the repetitions, the hammers, etc.... So let's start reasoning....

I recently saw a 1901 Bechstein model D and noticed that the action had this peculiarity, the key being "linked" to the capstan by a joint.

I would like to know what you think.

Here is an image:

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Well, yes, it was a mechanism that Renner used to make in the past. However, I believe I prefer, as is currently the case, the "detached" mechanism. Here, friction increases because there is an extra pivot linking the mechanism, and it is very inconvenient to work on the keyboard. In a linked mechanism, it is difficult to "perceive" the true return of the key and its fall into rest.

pianoexpert wrote:

Well, yes, it was a mechanism that Renner used to make in the past. However, I believe in favoring what is currently the "disconnected" mechanism. Here, friction increases because there is an extra pivot linking the mechanism, and it is very inconvenient to work on the keyboard. In a connected mechanism, it is difficult to "perceive" the true return of the key and its fall into rest.

Yes, I perceived problems with the smoothness of the key dip, due, perhaps, also to the materials:

In the front-to-center mortise of the key, there was leather instead of felt and cashmere.

On the other hand, I did not dislike the felting of the hammers (probably still original), which made the sound particularly soft.

Here is a photo:

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The leather is not working. Even Bösendorfer has become convinced that cashmere is better. The leather tends to "lock" the key when, during the descent, the applied force is not perfectly perpendicular to the keyboard... almost always. The key apparently descends perfectly (perhaps even thanks to the excessive play due to wear of the key bushings), but a minimum lateral deviation makes it no longer smooth.... sometimes it even jams.

Over time, the hammer action seems to be soft, but the felt loses all its properties. The hammer loses its "body" and elasticity, and the sound within its timbral range becomes "flat". In this case, it is necessary to replace the hammers with specially made hammers, identical in quality, weight, and shape.

I am very pleased to read pianoexpert's suggestions, I have a feeling that his skills are perfectly in line with his nickname... I believe it is a great thing to be a technician who is also a pianist and a pianist who is also a technician, precisely because it is possible to better understand the needs of the concert performer. Reading this discussion... I too have played on Bechstein pianos several times in the past. In my opinion, they have a very sweet sound suitable for the Romantic repertoire, perhaps less suitable for 20th-century compositions. On the other hand, I was not particularly impressed by the Bösendorfer. Once, I also had serious problems with a stuck key. Great anxiety.

Unfortunately, that's how it is! The felt doesn't work. The Bechstein is certainly sweet, but it must have a certain hammer action, certainly not that of today's Bechsteins, as it seems the one on the piano restored and loved by Francesco was fitted. Today, the hammer actions fitted on modern Bechsteins are heavier and harder. The boast of the "romantic sound" is: lightly loaded soundboard, light hammers... The "romantic" or old-fashioned sound was less "restrained." In my opinion, the sound decay was less pronounced. Today it seems that the soundboards are more heavily loaded and "less free to vibrate." Some experts say this is not good. In effect, the instrument is more stressed and less "sonorous." It gains in ease of pedaling. Everything seems easier and the pianist does not struggle to "tame" the sound. It is a matter of choice.

tgdigit wrote:

I recently saw a 1901 Bechstein model D and noticed that the action had this peculiarity: the key is "connected" to the keybed by a joint.

I would like to know what you think about it.

tgdigit wrote:

Yes, I perceived problems with the smoothness of the key dip, due, perhaps, also to the materials:

In the front-to-center mortise of the key, there was leather instead of felt and cashmere.

I did not dislike the hammer felting (probably still original), however, which made the sound particularly soft.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

It is curious to find a discussion about my piano complete with photos taken by a kind gentleman who was (perhaps) interested in purchasing it, and who then never reached out again, not even to tell me that the piano was not to his liking.

The beast of a piano will leave the house tomorrow: I had to demolish part of the roof to get it out.

It breaks my heart to let go of the piano on which I have prepared dozens of four-hand concerts: it was excellent for Schubert but also held up very well to Stravinsky's LE SACRE. Now I fear it will retire after years of glorious work.

If I had the space, I would keep it and would never dream of having the action "disconnected". A pity.

However, it is a pleasure to know the opinions of experts regarding one's own instrument, even if without one's knowledge!

Greetings to all, and I will be happy to follow your forum in the future!

Roberto

Hi Roberto, I notice a hint of annoyance in your words.

Forums are made for discussion and this time it just so happened that we were discussing your piano. Of course, it is not easy to break ties with an instrument that has accompanied us through the years.

Regarding the connected action... If your choice not to have it "disconnected" is motivated by emotional reasons or the originality of the instrument, it might make sense; otherwise, I don't see it. From the beginning of the 1900s to today, many strides have been made in terms of design, and if today there is a preference for action with a repetition lever disconnected from the key, there must be excellent design reasons. If I had a Bechstein like yours and had the possibility to spend money on upgrades to improve the instrument, I would consider installing a disconnected action. However, it must also be said that the piano is not the violin. All pianos are built to meet the same end... ashes (Unfortunately!!). And perhaps it wouldn't be worth spending a lot of money on a piano that has already lived a long life...

We hope to see you often.

Hi Simone!

Well yes, in effect I was annoyed by the fact that my instrument was being discussed without notifying me (not because of you but because of the "kind" gentleman who viewed it).

It is also true that I had given the link to the photos to this gentleman, but I certainly didn't think he would then want to publish them and talk about them, but I understand him: after all, he had already decided not to purchase the instrument and perhaps needed clarification regarding it.

No no, if I had kept the piano I certainly wouldn't have unstrung it, but the fact is that I didn't want to keep it but sell it!

In fact, the piano is now at a company that purchased it, finding it in optimal condition for a refurbishment: perfect soundboard, cast iron without any signs of failure, in short, they will do a complete job including unstringing the action and then will probably resell it at a considerable price.

However, I had found at least the same number of people who, even if they couldn't purchase it, would have kept the action as it is. Even a student from Cremona, who had restored a Pleyel by himself, had asked me (too late, unfortunately!) to buy the Bechstein to restore it to its original status and this, in my opinion, would have been truly for the best. Oh well!

I agree with you though: if I had the financial means, I wouldn't invest in rebuilding the action on a piano from 1901 but I would buy a more recent one and, above all, a shorter one!!!

A greeting.

Roberto

obegu wrote:

Hi Simone!

Well yes, in effect I was annoyed by the fact that my instrument was being discussed without notifying me (not because of you but because of the "kind" gentleman who viewed it).

It is also true that I had given the link to the photos to this gentleman, but I certainly didn't think he would then want to publish them and talk about them, but I understand him: after all, he had already decided not to purchase the instrument and perhaps needed clarification regarding it.

Honestly, I don't understand why you are being so aggressive with tgdigit; I believe you are referring to him. In the end, pianos are like cars: sometimes you come to see them, sometimes you buy them, sometimes you think it's not the right time and you let it go. Obviously, if someone doesn't have much experience regarding pianos, they ask for help and/or confirmation from an expert, and what better place than a forum? In the end, he published photos of a piano, not photos of some person in compromising positions... I don't see the problem. If what he did were wrong, it would be punishable, but it doesn't seem to me that there are laws that oblige someone to buy a piano they have only seen, or laws that forbid publishing photos of the mechanics of someone else's piano on the internet....

pianoexpert wrote:

On 23/05/2011 at 19:17, pianoexpert said:

The instrument in question is very particular. It is the owner of the "romantic sound". Soundboard not very loaded and light hammers....

Sorry @pianoexpert, according to your opinion, is this also due to the fact that old Bechsteins, for example (1934 or earlier), lack the Capo d'astro (so the cast iron frame does not vibrate)?

Thank you

no. The cast iron frame does not vibrate anyway, whether with clamps or with the headstock.

pianoexpert wrote:

On 20/01/2025 at 09:03, pianoexpert said:

no. The cast iron frame does not vibrate anyway, whether with aggraffe or with capo d'astro.

So vibrations do not affect the sound of period pianos?

I didn't say that vibrations don't have an effect. I said that the cast iron frame does not vibrate