A warm greeting to everyone!!!

antares86 wrote:

As for me, Ravel's Jeux d'eau.... Debussy.... it took me a while to start appreciating him, as well as Bach.... speaking of which, I better go back to focusing on the first arabesque, which I need to clean up a bit haha

Happy studying then!!!

ivanricciardi wrote:

on Bach and Liszt (and Chopin), nothing to add; their contribution to pianism, in my opinion, is unparalleled.

Curiosity, in what sense Bach's... contribution to pianism?

I had thought about it too, truth be told, but I hadn't expressed my opinion...

Frank wrote:

Curiosity, in what sense Bach... contribution to pianism?

Perhaps they meant it indirectly, in the sense that although these writings were not conceived for the piano, they were subsequently introduced into piano literature and consist of a large volume of material.

Frank wrote:

Curiosity, in what sense Bach... contribution to pianism?

Despite having written nothing for the piano (in fact, he even snubbed the piano!!!), he is a pillar of piano pedagogy. The benefit derived from his works for harpsichord, played on the piano, is in my opinion incomparable to any technical exercise or study (excluding Chopin and Liszt) or anything else. It is no coincidence that the greatest contemporary and past pianists have admitted to spending hours at the piano performing the preludes and fugues of The Well-Tempered Clavier. I myself recognize that after studying the 24 preludes and fugues of the WTC, my hand and my technique changed significantly. Bach is at the foundation of everything

... one must also consider that if one studies Bach from the early years, there must be a reason!!?

ivanricciardi wrote:

Despite not having written anything for piano (in fact, he even snubbed the piano!!!), he is a pillar of piano pedagogy. The benefit that can be drawn from his works for harpsichord, transposed to the piano, is in my opinion incomparable to any technical exercise or study (Chopin and Liszt excluded) or whatever. It is no coincidence that the greatest contemporary and past pianists have admitted to spending hours at the piano performing the preludes and fugues of The Well-Tempered Clavier. I myself recognize that after studying 24 preludes and fugues of the WTC, my hand and my technique changed significantly. Bach is at the foundation of everything.

considering that I adore him but am never satisfied when I study him...... how can I argue with you ahahahah

ivanricciardi wrote:

Despite not having written anything for the piano (in fact, he even snubbed the piano!!!), he is a pillar of piano pedagogy. The benefit that one derives from his works for harpsichord, when applied to the piano, is in my opinion incomparable to any technical exercise or study (Chopin and Liszt excluded) or whatever else. It is no coincidence that the greatest contemporary and past pianists have admitted to spending hours at the piano performing the preludes and fugues of The Well-Tempered Clavier. I myself recognize that after studying 24 preludes and fugues of the WTC, my hand and my technique changed significantly. Bach is at the foundation of everything.

Ok Ivan, regarding Bach's opinion on the piano, I would overlook it... it happens to imagine that Bach had the possibility to see a Steinway & Sons grand piano, but that was not the case. I am certain that if someone were to present me with something like a water organ, I would share his opinion. He came from the harpsichord and the organ, instruments that were already decidedly mature in his era (except for the organ, but the harpsichord was quite advanced).

I was asking you about pianism because his music is atypical regarding the expressive possibilities of the instrument, and not by chance Bach is used to improve in music... and he himself created repertoire and his own pedagogy.

Besides, I have noticed that many pianists struggle more "mentally" than technically to perform his music, because a vertical reading is not enough, but a horizontal one is also needed. In its contrapuntal complexity, the notes are always perfectly distributable between the two hands, something that today's composers should keep well in mind.

Writing the above, however, I am increasingly convinced that probably the same mastery of means is required even for the music of composers like Franck or Brahms... so, assuming that I am probably biased, certainly to reach a certain level of completeness, it is required just as much as for other musicians (implicitly including the good Stockhausen as well, regarding the mastery of timbral aspects).

It seems, however, that the late Bach had re-evaluated the piano positively. He had the opportunity to play on the Silbermann version, which was quite improved compared to the primordial model, on which this time he remained positively impressed by the expressive capabilities, at the court of Frederick II, King of Prussia in Potsdam, if I am not mistaken.

Frank wrote:

Ok Ivan, regarding Bach's opinion on the piano, I would overlook it... it happens to imagine that Bach had the chance to see a Steinway & Sons grand piano, but that was not the case. I am certain that if someone presented me with something like a stringed toilet, I would share his opinion. He came from the harpsichord and the organ, instruments that were already decidedly mature in his era (except for the organ, but the harpsichord was quite advanced).

I was asking you about pianism because his music is atypical for the expressive possibilities of the instrument, and not by chance Bach is used to improve in Bach's music... and he himself created repertoire and his own pedagogy.

Besides, I have found that many pianists struggle more "mentally" than technically to perform his music, because a vertical reading is not enough, but a horizontal one is also needed. In its contrapuntal complexity, the notes are always perfectly distributable between the 2 hands, something that today's composers should keep well in mind.

Writing the above, however, I am increasingly convinced that probably the same mastery of means is needed even for the music of composers like Franck or Brahms... so, assuming that I am probably biased, certainly to reach a certain level of completeness, it is required just as much as for other musicians (implicitly including the good Stockhausen regarding the mastery of timbral aspects).

well, I heard a Silbermann fortepiano playing, I think..... it sounded like hearing the lute register of a harpsichord..... ahhahahhaha

TheSimon wrote:

It seems, however, that the late Bach had positively re-evaluated the piano. He had the opportunity to play on the Silbermann version, which was quite improved compared to the primordial model, on which this time he remained positively impressed by the expressive capabilities, at the court of Frederick II King of Prussia in Potsdam if I am not mistaken.

i heard it too.... but is it true?"

Well, there are very precise historical references so I don't think it's a hoax...

Frank wrote:

Ok Ivan, regarding Bach's opinion on the piano, I would overlook it... it happens to imagine that Bach had the possibility of viewing a Steinway & Sons grand piano, but that was not the case. I am certain that if someone were to present me with something like a stringed toilet, I would share his opinion. He came from the harpsichord and the organ, instruments that were already decidedly mature in his era (except for the organ, but the harpsichord was quite advanced).

I was asking you about pianism because his music is atypical for the expressive possibilities of the instrument, and not by chance one uses Bach to improve in Bach's music... and he himself created repertoire and his own pedagogy.

Besides, I have found that many pianists struggle more "mentally" than technically to perform his music, because a vertical reading is not enough, but a horizontal one is also needed. In its contrapuntal complexity, the notes are always perfectly distributable between the 2 hands, something that today's composers should keep well in mind.

Writing the above, however, I am increasingly convinced that probably the same mastery of means is needed even for the music of composers like Franck or Brahms... so, assuming that I am probably biased, certainly to reach a certain level of completeness, it is required just as much as for other musicians (implicitly including the good Stockhausen regarding the mastery of timbral aspects).

D'accord on everything you write. On one thing I am a bit perplexed, namely when you say that "one uses Bach to improve in Bach's music". Personally, I do not know many other composers who have developed the polyphonic aspect so deeply. It is true that in Bach's time the harpsichord and the organ did not allow for highlighting the individual entries of the subjects of a fugue (except with complex artifices and, to tell the truth, ones that are little known to me), but it is also true that this practice, possible today thanks to the piano, yields good results both for the development of the so-called "polyphonic hand," and for the technique that derives from the absolute necessity of equality of sounds, legato, "staccato legato," and many other aspects relating to touch. Of course, I am speaking mostly from personal experience and from those pianists with whom I have been able to discuss this topic. Perhaps for others it is not so??!
Pursuant to that, I absolutely agree with you on the fact that every composer has, more or less, contributed to the development of piano performance practice. If it were not so, we would find ourselves playing all authors in the same way, and fortunately that is not the case!!!

As for Stockhausen, I will not comment as I am not a lover of dodecaphony and the twentieth-century avant-garde, but here I admit my ignorance

TheSimon wrote:

It seems, however, that the late Bach had re-evaluated the piano in a positive light. He had the opportunity to play on Silbermann's version, which was quite improved compared to the primordial model, upon which this time he remained positively impressed by the expressive capabilities, at the court of Frederick II, King of Prussia in Potsdam, if I am not mistaken.

As far as I know, he was obliged to play on the Silbermann piano. On that occasion, if I am not mistaken, he improvised the Musical Offering.

Finally the calendar is out!!!

The diploma is scheduled for July 15th at 10:00.

I still have a bit of time to fine-tune a few things

I'm already freaking out

Making yourself small only makes you play worse. Believe in yourself and impose your idea!

Good luck with the exam! You don't know how much I miss that atmosphere... Enjoy it all.

Have courage and enjoy this beautiful moment. No fear, only the great joy of Music. The program is beautiful!!! I love Ravel's Sonatina, and what can be said about Liszt's sonata?. Go for it!!!!! Play as if you were at home. Dare. Let yourself go. No tension. Concerto Italiano is excellent for starting and "basing" your calm relaxation. Good luck and keep us informed!!

pianoexpert wrote:

Have courage and enjoy this beautiful moment. No fear, but only the great joy of Music. The program is beautiful!!! I love Ravel's Sonatina and what can be said about Liszt's sonata?. Go!!!!! Play like you are at home. Dare. Let yourself go. No tension. The Concerto Italiano is excellent for starting and "basing" your calm relaxation. Good luck and keep us informed!!

the concerto italiano is simply fantastic!!! like Liszt's minor sonata.... but to be honest I prefer Dante

Heartfelt thanks to everyone for the encouragement

To overcome stage fright, I am trying to play as much as possible in front of friends and I often record myself with a camera; for the eighth time I have done this and it worked. I hope it works this time too.

I will keep you updated

ivanricciardi wrote:

As far as I know, he was forced to play on the Silberman piano. On that occasion, if I am not mistaken, he improvised the Musical Offering.

Is it a ricercar for three voices?

TheSimon wrote:

Is it a three-voice ricercare?

no the musical offering consists of: well, either the 3-voice ricercare or one of the 9 canons or the canonical fugue; as for the rest, I doubt it.....