Analyzing a Chord Progression

my opinion is that the harmonic environment is clearly modal; consequently, performing a tonal-style harmonic analysis is not advisable, if not impossible.

i would approach it like this:

1-play only the bass and the melody, so as to appreciate their sonic relationships.

2-i would look for compositional similarities in the voice movements. For example, the first 4 bars seem to be two identical pairs a fourth apart: in the first and second, Ab rises by a semitone to A, and in the third and fourth, from Db to D. In the following three bars, there is a chromatic descent from Db to Cb that resolves on the Bb of the new section.

3-try it yourself with the other voices....

Practically speaking, there is a need to approach everything at a pure polyphonic level, voice by voice; my impression is that there is a lot of symmetry in the movement of the parts.

What do you say, DrJellyfish?

Yes, I agree. Earlier I ventured an analysis of a fragment that could have a vague tonal interpretation, but essentially it is as you say, moreover it seems to me that Dobbins himself says something to that effect.

Ok, but then by doing an analysis considering the mode, the transition points from one mode to another should still be identifiable, right?

I'll try to take a look, even if the signature is very complex; in the improvisation, it should probably be lightened up a bit...

Wanting to strictly adhere to the written part (the first 8 measures), it seems to me:

Ab lydian augmented / C melodic minor or C harmonic major (or Hauptmann scale) / A aeolian, A harmonic minor / Bb melodic / D melodic minor, D dorian or D natural minor / Bb melodic / F major / B superlocrian.

Admired DrHellyfish, but I have two difficulties:

- matching your precious indications with the score

- understanding the reasoning

Can you modify the image proposed by Frank with Paint and write your notes plus a few small captions underneath?

Thank you, I am admiring you all very much... you are truly precious and I'm not just talking about this section. I am discovering a lot of things that I practically ignored

Now I'll try to do it, among other things I saw a couple of errors that I need to correct.

I believe the harmonic analysis of the piece should be carried out within a modal framework rather than a tonal one, as the progression of the fundamentals is chromatic rather than diatonic.

I refer back to the "parent lyrical scale" (SLG) for any chord notation, as it is from this scale that the chord implanted on the chosen modal tonic is produced. Furthermore, this scale is the source for subsequent rearrangements and extemporaneous compositions based on the harmonic progression of the piece.

The 8th tonal level is the "augmented" level of every SLG. The 9th tonal level is the "diminished" level of every SLG.

1st measure: Ab lydian altered. SLG: lab sib do re mi fa sol lab (8th tonal level)

2nd measure: Ab lydian altered. SLG: lab si do re mi fa sol lab (9th tonal level)

3rd measure, first part: A aeolian. SLG: fa sol la si do re mi fa

3rd measure, second part: 2nd degree of the SLG: fa sol# la si do re mi fa (9th tonal level)

4th measure: Bb dorian altered. SLG: reb mib fa sol la sib do reb (8th tonal level)

5th measure: D dorian altered. SLG: fa sol la si do# re mi fa (8th tonal level)

6th measure, first chord: Bb dorian altered. SLG: reb mib fa sol la sib do reb (8th tonal level)

6th measure, second chord: Bb dorian altered. SLG: reb mi fa sol la sib do reb (9th tonal level)

7th measure: F ionian. SLG: sib do re mi fa sol la sib

8th measure: B VII+5. SLG: mib fa sol la si do re mib (8th tonal level)

9th measure: Bb eolian. SLG: solb lab sib do reb mib fa solb.

I find it difficult to define the key of the piece. Generally speaking, in my opinion, given the presence of an F ionian which presents a strong tonal attraction, the tonal environment rotates, in terms of "central gravitational harmonic element," around the Bb lydian scale.

http://www.armoniamodale.blogspot.it/

http://www.divshare.com/download/15806821-fff

Thanks Modale, I'm digesting your long post... but I have a question regarding the premise:

modale wrote:

I believe the harmonic analysis of the piece should be carried out within a modal framework and not a tonal one, since the progression of the fundamentals is chromatic rather than diatonic.

It seems to me that you only need to see a chromatic bass line to understand that the harmonization is certainly modal; are we sure? I mean, chromatic bass lines can also be harmonized "tonally," or am I wrong?

I understand if, looking at the harmony later, you say: it's modal... but just by seeing the chromaticism... I repeat the question, is that so?

Thanks for the opportunity you've given me, a Jamsession to express a concept that I should have clarified before.

Here is what I think:

I make a distinction between bass and fundamental. The bass is the lowest note taken in a chord; the fundamental is the modal tonic of the complex chord/modal scale. In other words, for example, in the Cmaj complex/Cmaj scale, the fundamental is C; it can be played or not, it doesn't matter, the lowest note can be another choice based on the musician's taste, for example G or E. In tonal harmony, fundamentals have a diatonic progression (it is clear that in a tonal piece there can be modulating/modal islands). If in tonal harmony we notice, as you say, a chromatic progression of the "basses," it is often due to the absence, within the chord, of the fundamental which is replaced by another note of the chord; substitution of single chords; islands where the fundamental travels in a chromatic/symmetrical manner, islands that substitute a II V I, for example Coltrane changes and many other turnarounds. Example D-7 G7 C-----D-7 Db7 C--- Ab G7 C....D-7 G7 Gb and many others. These chromaticisms of the fundamental are not structural but simply the result of substitutions of single chords or a group of chords. In other words, the chromatic progression of the basses in tonal harmony is functional to a melodic bass line; in modal harmony, the chromaticism of the fundamentals is structural.

modale wrote:

I make a distinction between the bass and the root. The bass is the lowest note taken in a chord, the root is the modal tonic of the complex chord/modal scale. In other words, for example, in the complex Cmaj/Cmaj scale, the root is C; whether it is played or not does not matter, the lowest note can be another choice based on the musician's taste, for example G or E. In tonal harmony, roots have a diatonic progression (it is clear that in a tonal piece there can be modulating or modal islands). If in tonal harmony we notice, as you say, a chromatic progression of the "basses," it is often due to the absence, within the chord, of the root which is replaced by another note of the chord; substitution of single chords; islands where the root travels in a chromatic/symmetrical manner, islands that substitute a II V I, for example Coltrane changes and many other turnarounds. Example D-7 G7 C-----D-7 Db7 C--- Ab G7 C....D-7 G7 Gb and many others. These chromaticisms of the root are not structural but simply the result of substitutions of single chords or a group of chords. In other words, the chromatic progression of the basses in tonal music is functional to a melodic bass line; in modal music, the chromaticism of the roots is structural.

I find this consideration very interesting, thank you Modale...

...clearly also to everyone else for the insights and information received. Obviously, the discussion is always open.

...high-level discussions, thank you. Very professional.