Arrangement Seminar/Discussion

DrJellyfish wrote:

But I find you in good shape.

no way, I'm even tanned!

in the next few days I'll track down your notes and then I'll show you ahah

Bit wrote:

But I also did something like Ale, then I thought it was too basic and I suspected that I had "made a mistake".

Practically, it was just about developing the chord symbols... right?

the next time don't hesitate; any potential errors can be a source of understanding for others

in effect, at this stage it was just about developing the chord symbols, with 2 simple adjustments: if the chord is a major 7th and the harmonization forms a semitone interval with the melody, the major 7th is replaced by the 6th; in chords with an added 6th, this is always major.

the next step should be learning to distinguish between chord tones, tensions, non-chord tones .... but here the floor passes to the professor

Bravo Ale!

The reason why (at least for now) I haven't moved the discussion to the seminars section is precisely because I like that there is this exchange of information, rather than an actual course...

Next steps?

If no one has encountered difficulties (the only exception was the one reported by Ale: avoiding the semitone between the two upper voices), we could venture into harmonic tensions...

Here the discussion gets a bit complicated and I wouldn't mind the complicity of Frank, Ale, and anyone else who wants to contribute.

The definition of tension itself varies slightly from one text to another, so I will try to summarize what in my view is the general concept.

To avoid perplexity, I anticipate that my approach is to start from extremely simple concepts (and consequently sometimes a bit reductive) and then gradually move on to more complex solutions. For the same reason, at the beginning I will only deal with the tonal realm before arriving at other harmonic systems.

Tensions

Are notes similar to chord tones in that they are extensions of the chord (9, 11, 13) or alterations of chord tones (b5, #5). They harmonize with the indicated chord regardless.

They do not substantially alter the harmonic function of the chord; if anything, they define it in more detail.

They vary based on the type of chord (and, sometimes, the harmonic context).

chord possible tensions

∆ 9M, 11aum, 13M (6M)

-7 9M, 11G

7 9m, 9M, 9aum, 11aum, 5dim, 5aum, 13m, 13M

Ø 9M, 11G

O 9M, 11G, 13M, 7M (generally tensions on diminished chords are not numbered and are found a tone above each chord tone)

The more experienced will have noticed that I omitted some of the possible tensions; for now, I am limiting myself to those that do not generate ambiguity and that, in application, do not require too in-depth an analysis. The range of cases is so wide that I find it more practical to examine all possible variables as they arise and limit the basic patterns to formulas that are quite simple, direct, and easy to memorize.

As we have seen previously, ∆ and -∆ chords can be replaced by 6 and -6, without significantly affecting their function.

So we will still have:

6 9M, #11

-6 9M

Before proceeding, I would like to know if there are any doubts or if you feel clarifications are necessary. ;-)

DrJellyfish wrote:

Before proceeding, I would like to know if there are any doubts or if you feel clarifications are necessary. ;-)

I would feel more confident if a practical example were provided, for instance, by preceding a G with "∆ 9M, 11aum, 13M (6M)", as we are saying.

G B F# Ab C# E (6M=13M)

Right?

If that were the case, I would expect the tensions to be outside of these 6 notes, considering a G∆ 9M, 11aum, 13M chord. I am asking because it seems instead that, once the third and fifth—which I intentionally omitted—are removed, the other notes of the chord themselves are tensions.

DrJellyfish wrote:

As we have seen previously, ∆ and -∆ chords can be replaced by 6 and -6, without significantly affecting their function.

So we will still have:

6 9M, #11

-6 9M

oops I didn't understand this

i mean on the "7+" (how did you write the delta?) you can have the T13, ok, but also the Tb6? doesn't it conflict with the 5th?

and in the "minor with 7+" what would be the overall tensions then?

Martina, here is a chart that seems very clear to me: http://www.pianosolo.it/2010/09/20/le-tensioni/

there are some marginal differences compared to Jellyfish's scheme, but I think it could be useful for you to understand the mechanism.

hoping that I haven't instead introduced an element of confusion, I ask the Dr., regarding these differences:

- considering a major 7th as a tension in a "7+" chord seems a bit extreme to me....

- in the "-7", how do you see the Tb9?

- and in the "semidim.", the Tb13?

Martina wrote:

I would feel more confident if a practical example arrived, for instance, by preceding a G with "∆ 9M, 11aum, 13M (6M)", as we are saying.

G B F# Ab C# E (6M=13M)

Why Ab? It's a major ninth.

In theory, the fifth would also be contemplated in the chord, so, in a thirds voicing: G, B, D, F#, A, C#, E.

In effect, in these cases, the fifth is often omitted to avoid friction with the #11, but it also depends on the voicing.

Martina wrote:

If that were the case, I would expect the tensions to be outside of these 6 notes, considering a G∆ 9M, 11aum, 13M chord. I ask this because it seems instead that, once the third and fifth which I deliberately did not include are removed, the other notes of the chord themselves are tensions.

In this case, I would say that the notation itself includes the tensions, which remain such even if they are included in the symbol. By chordal notes, one generally means the base notes of the chord, those without which it loses its functional identity, so generally* 1, 3, 5, 7.

*Chords like a 7sus4 can be an exception, but I would discuss that later."

AleGozzo wrote:

cso, on the "7+" (how did you write the delta?) you can have the T13, ok, but also the Tb6? doesn't it conflict with the 5th?

this 7+ doesn't blow me away, it gives me the old "augmented seventh"... on the edge of maj7 or M7; in any case, the Tb6 in this case (and especially in the -7) is sometimes omitted not so much because it collides with the 5th (with a few arrangement tricks you would come out clean), but because it can create ambiguity in the chord function. I'll tell you more later**.

AleGozzo wrote:

and in the "minor with 7+" what would be the overall tensions then?

9M, 11G (which I deliberately ignored), 13M

AleGozzo wrote:

Martina, here is a chart that seems very clear to me: http://www.pianosolo...20/le-tensioni/

there are some marginal differences compared to Jellyfish's chart, but I think it could be useful for you to understand the mechanism.

hoping that instead I haven't introduced an element of confusion, I ask the Dr., regarding these differences:

ha! I had just said that the more experienced ones would smell something coming...

The difference between the two charts is proof of the fact that different schools of thought coexist. The ideal would be to read the various points of view and form your own.

AleGozzo wrote:

- considering a tension as the major 7th in a "7+" chord seems a bit extreme to me....

- in the "-7", how do you see the b9?

- and in the "semidim.", the b13?

Here I refer back to your perplexity regarding 6th chords. Bill Russo astutely bypasses the problem by considering simple major and minor triads: in this way, he can treat both the maj7 and the m6 as tensions and interchange them at will. In fact, the major seventh can easily be replaced by the sixth on a major chord without affecting the chord's function, something that cannot happen, for example, on a dominant seventh chord where the seventh must be perceptible, which is why the sixth (13) is added to the chord.

In the -7, I don't see the b9 very well; it is different for the b13 on the Ø. This is indeed a possible tension, but I have chosen to deal with it later.

** the "I'll tell you later" referred to a thornier discussion, which should be clarified when non-chord tones are discussed. In reality, any note could be considered a tension: no one forbids us from writing a piece in which for the entire duration of a C∆ (oh, by the way, try alt+H...) we play an Eb, and label the chord C∆(#9),

it's also cool... the fact is that if at an entrance exam for a two-year arrangement course you find a passing Eb on a C∆ and harmonize it like this, you risk having it brought back home to you...

Diciamo che alcune note, anche contemplate in certi casi come tensioni, vanno trattate con una consapevolezza che uno studente alle prime armi potrebbe non avere.

Let's say that some notes, even when considered as tensions in certain cases, must be treated with an awareness that a beginner student might not have.

For this reason, I tried to use schemes that include what Americans sometimes call "mechanical voicings," which allow for harmonization with certainty,

mechanically indeed, without running risks, even without the aid of the piano. Of course, at the beginning, one gives up a bit of adventure...

DrJellyfish wrote:

Why Lab?

...oops, a slip-up

DrJellyfish wrote:

In theory, the agreement would also contemplate the fifth, so, in an arrangement of thirds: G, B, D, F#, A, C#, E.

In effect, in these cases, the fifth is often omitted to avoid friction with the #11, but it also depends on the voicing.

Usually I only keep it if altered; otherwise, it's the first thing I sacrifice.

DrJellyfish wrote:

In this case, I would say that the same symbol includes the tensions.

Ok, everything that is outside of the seventh chords is not chordal.

@ Ale. You're the usual party pooper, now someone reading these posts "will see them"...

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆∆ ∆ the 7+ is a legacy of experience with beach songbooks ....

anyway starting with a "mechanical" approach seems great to me, after all it is the same principle with which classical composition is approached.

I made a little diagram of the tensions according to your instructions, take a look because if something is wrong I'll change it on the fly

.... and here is the confirmation analysis (as you will see, I am in doubt whether to interpret the tension enharmonically, beat 5)

'iao

That is the sense of it, then it will be a matter of deciding whether to treat (arbitrarily) certain chordal notes or tensions with non-chordal notes. But we will find out in the next episodes. Stay tuned! :D

Just to hear another bell, here is what the book "Modern Jazz Voicings" by Ted Pease and Ken Pullig reports.