Better a Sad Tenant

I was a piano student who never caused too many problems for the neighbors! And yes, a little because of the choice of times when I practiced, and a little because sitting at the piano for more than two hours wasn't a frequent thing! 😕 Have mercy, I was a child! 😉

Anyway, whether for exam preparation or personal inclination, it is easy to spend several hours at the instrument, and to cause annoyance to those living nearby. Unfortunately, it is true that one can be a nuisance. There are people with small children to put to sleep, people who suffer from migraines, or simply those who (rightfully) after hours of "scales" ... can't stand us anymore! 😛

The luck of those who play the piano is being able to enjoy (due to the nature of the instrument itself) greater tolerance from neighbors. I had a friend who played the horn. Imagine that! 😛 :P 😉

There is no solution to the problem! Unfortunately, close living quarters are one of the constraints of our time.

The problem for a musician is twofold, then, because unlike the "thug" type who keeps the stereo at full blast all day long, they also have the sensitivity to understand that they can actually bother the neighbors!!! A blessing and a curse, together! 😉

I solved it with my lovely digital piano (ugh, I'm praising it again 😉) which allows me to play with headphones at all hours of the day and night. How beautiful it is to be able to play at night!!! You feel like Chopin, wrapped in silence and solitude. You understand better how certain "situations" could have inspired certain music 😉

In fact, I can say that now I have moved to the side of the one who suffers the annoyance! And yes, because it happens that, sometimes, while I am at the piano (with headphones) my girlfriend comes into the living room to turn on the TV!!!

What a torment, living together!!! 😉

michele75 wrote:

I was a piano student who never caused too many problems for the neighbors! And yes, a bit because of the choice of times when I practiced, and a bit because sitting at the piano for more than two hours wasn't a frequent thing! 😕 Have mercy, I was a child! 😉

Anyway, whether for exam preparation or personal inclination, it is easy to spend several hours at the instrument, and to cause annoyance to those living around. Unfortunately, it is true that one can be a nuisance. There are people with small children to put to sleep, people who suffer from migraines, or simply those who (rightfully) after hours of "scales" ... can't stand us anymore! 😉

The luck of those who play the piano is being able to enjoy (due to the nature of the instrument itself) greater tolerance from neighbors. I had a friend who played the horn. Imagine that! 😉😛 :P

There is no solution to the problem! Unfortunately, close living quarters are one of the constraints of our time.

The problem for a musician is twofold, then, because unlike the "tacky" type who keeps the stereo at full blast all day long, they also have the sensitivity to understand that they can actually bother the neighbors!!! A blessing and a curse, together! 😛

I solved it with my lovely digital piano (ugh, I'm praising it again 😉) which allows me to play with headphones at all hours of the day and night. How beautiful to be able to play at night!!! You feel like Chopin, wrapped in silence and solitude. You understand better how certain "situations" could have inspired certain music 😉

In fact, I can say that now I have moved to the side of the one who suffers the annoyance! And yes, because it happens that, sometimes, while I am at the piano (with headphones) my girlfriend comes into the living room to turn on the TV!!!

Living together is such a torment!!!

You know Michele, when my keyboard works (a little bit yes and a little bit no... 😉) I also like to play in the evening or at night ... however, I always give an extra point to the real piano ... I feel more "in contact with it" and more at ease ... and then, the sound!!! Certainly, though even the electric piano has its advantages ...

Ciao!!! Francesco 1797

My opinion is that there are some digital pianos that are truly well-made, both from a mechanical and a sonic point of view. But I am also increasingly inclined towards the acoustic piano... It's a whole different story.

In the Logic Pro video course, in the first lesson, I address the topic of "sound" by correlating from a mathematical point of view (obviously trying to simplify as much as possible and trying not to be too rigorous so as not to complicate the subject too much and make it accessible to everyone) what a sound wave is and what the representation of analog sound in digital is. And this already explains for the most part why digital sound can never be equal to analog. Obviously, in all of this, all the other characteristics of analog sound are not considered (because otherwise we would have had to talk for hours and the discussion would have become truly difficult and accessible only to mathematicians and physicists), such as the infinite field of dynamic nuances, timbre, the surface of the soundboard, the grouping of waves on it, the length and section of the strings, harmonics... All topics that profoundly determine the abyssal difference that exists between an analog instrument and its digital sampling. Perhaps in 50 - 100 - 1000 years, who knows, digital will continue to approach analog, one thing is certain... What is digital will never arrive at being analog. This brings to mind an interview I did on television with Arianna Ciampoli, in which she asked me to define whether artificial intelligence was truly intelligent. The answer is more or less the same... I replied: "The artificial can never be intelligent by definition; a computer cannot even generate random numbers, as they are called pseudorandom, so at the source there is always human intelligence" (if you want the interview, it is visible on my website. Therefore, if we compare ourselves to God, we could be his "robots," his creations, which yearn to know his infinity through science, religion, philosophy, etc., even knowing that we will never reach God. In the same way, machines and robotics are continuously perfecting themselves to resemble what is human, but what is robotic will never be human and natural. The same applies to music: digital can never be analog.

Forgive the tangent. Regards

nice "field exit", Simone, great example-comparison.

I am also inclined towards the "real piano", then, as you know, sometimes I play on the Bechstein grand piano that is at the school ... and it cannot even be compared to an electric piano, especially mine from the stone age 😕 !

As far as the neighbors are concerned, well, I would say I am neither too unlucky nor too lucky ... I certainly wouldn't have the space for a grand 😉, but an upright ... I've already thought about it more than once! 😉

I will gladly go watch the interview ... the definition of "non-intelligent artificial intelligence" seems interesting to me ... 😉

That's all for now ... bye!!! Francesco 1797

The issue of artificial intelligence is very complex, and it deserves to be discussed in a dedicated thread!

I realize we are a bit OT regarding the 'tristo inquilino' [the subject at hand], but I would like to briefly give my opinion on the matter.

I don't quite agree with Simone, and I realize that this is due precisely to the starting point of our

reasoning. Simone starts (obviously) from a religious conception of the issue, whereas I... no, as an agnostic.

It is just a matter of complexity (in my opinion); we are nothing more and nothing less than an extremely complex processor in which

the 1/0, YES/NO choices are countless.

I know that this reasoning might sound out of place in a forum like this (dedicated to art)... but even art, and therefore

music, reduces to 1/0 and Yes and NO.

The future will hold great surprises for us 😕

I'll stop here... out of respect for the 'tristo inquilino', but it would be nice to continue the discussion in another thread! 😉

michele75 wrote:

The issue of artificial intelligence is very complex, and it deserves to be discussed in a dedicated thread!

I realize we are a bit OT regarding the 'tristo inquilino' [the sad tenant/original topic], but I would like to briefly give my two cents on the subject.

I don't quite agree with Simone, and I realize that this is due precisely to the starting point of our

reasoning. Simone starts (obviously) from a religious conception of the issue, whereas I... no, as an agnostic.

It is just a matter of complexity (in my opinion); we are nothing more and nothing less than an extremely complex processor in which

the 1/0, YES/NO choices are countless.

I know that this reasoning might sound out of place in a forum like this (dedicated to art)... but even art, and therefore

music, reduces to 1/0 and Yes and NO.

The future will hold great surprises for us 😕

I'll stop here... out of respect for the 'tristo inquilino', but it would be nice to continue the discussion in another thread! 😉

Well... I, on the other hand, believe that the human soul is "an infinite variation, made of colors and shades" (or, if you prefer... "of tones and semitones, with major scale and relative minor..." 😉 !) I don't know...

This is a great discussion; in fact, this is an issue that must be considered for those of us who live in apartment buildings. I started studying piano very recently, and just a few weeks ago I began to realize that playing the piano over time might start to bother the neighbors, because the piano can be heard throughout the entire building and even outside the house, even with the windows closed: I asked a friend of mine to play something while I went out of the house to do a test, and I heard it everywhere, even outside the building, as I wrote, several meters away! I must say that my neighbors seem very calm, but will they always be, even in the future, or will one day someone knock on my door and say: "Enough!". And, even if they don't say it, because not everyone has the "courage" to speak up, thinking that while playing there is someone getting annoyed certainly isn't pleasant. So, what should be done when we realize this? The ideal for those who play the piano, as Pianoexpert wrote, is to go live in the countryside (my grandparents lived in the countryside. Lucky them!), but unfortunately buying a house in the country costs a lot of money, or one would have to buy one of those rustic houses that people left to come live in the city; there are even some for very little money, including land for a potential small vegetable garden, while keeping the apartment in the city. There are houses like this around, like the one in the photo I attached, which costs "only" 25,000 euros, but unfortunately, they are all far from the city, in villages several hours' drive away. Alternatively, staying in the building, one could have a room soundproofed by a specialized company so that it is an effective job, but soundproofing a 4x4 room costs more than a house like the one in the photo I attached here. So, what should be done to be able to play peacefully without disturbing anyone? You who have been playing the piano for a long time, what do you recommend doing? I confess that this thought is starting to worry me, and I have been thinking about it for several weeks now.

But don't worry!!!!!! Respect the proper rest intervals and you will see that nothing will happen. If you then become so good that you have to study for concerts a few hours a day (not 10 hours, which is useless... Richter studied 3 hours a day), then you will take a digital piano into consideration.

Good music.

P.S.

A good thing is to think that others are listening to us. This induces us to immediately find the music in the piece we are about to study.... even hands separate....... It will suggest technical solutions to you.... Good work

pianoexpert wrote:

But don't worry!!!!!! Respect the proper rest intervals and you will see that nothing will happen. If you then become so good that you have to study for concerts a few hours a day (not 10 hours, which is useless... Richter studied 3 hours a day), then you will consider a digital piano.

Good music.

P.S.

A good thing is to think that others are listening to us. This induces us to immediately find the music in the piece we are about to study.... even with hands separate....... It will suggest technical solutions to you.... Good work

Since I have been studying the piano for very little time, I don't know how to play pleasant-sounding pieces yet, only those boring scales, those boring exercises (which frankly I don't find boring. In fact! Perhaps it is because I am used to listening to Cage? 😆), and since I play three or four hours a day, I am afraid of disturbing. Recently I have been getting into the habit of using a mute, especially when practicing the more difficult exercises, which therefore don't always go well, or with the "uglier" exercises. Tell me, Paolo, you who are a technician, could using a mute in the long run cause damage to a "machine" as complex as the piano, damage to its balance? I am glad to know that Richter studied, and therefore also played, only three hours a day; it is certainly encouraging to know, as I thought that the more hours one studies, the better (I confess that some days I even studied six or seven hours).

There are methods that invite you to play immediately. I am against doing three years of scales and exercises only to then begin "making music". Start with Beyer and Bartók's Mikrokosmos. You can start making music even with a small piece. Immediately. I suggest Stravinsky's "Five Fingers". Think! without the thumb passage... and yet there is so much music. Let's try to read a short phrase or a melody right away. Schumann's Album for the Young is recommended. Easy.

Good music....even for the neighbors!

pianoexpert wrote:

There are methods that invite you to play immediately. I am against doing three years of scales and exercises only to then begin "making music". Start with Beyer and Bartók's Mikrokosmos. You can start making music even with a small piece. Immediately. I suggest Stravinsky's "Five Finger Studies". Think about it! without the thumb passage... and yet there is so much music. Let's try to read a short phrase or a melody right away. Schumann's Album for the Young is recommended. Easy.

Good music.... even for the neighbors!

Thank you Paolo, you are encouraging. Indeed, starting to play musical pieces right away (in addition to studying scales, thumb passage, and the rest) certainly gives more momentum, and also, I suppose, gives pleasure to the neighbors listening. In fact, someone might perhaps think: "Hey, but this young man, a nearly 60-year-old piano student, is doing quite well!". To their peace and mine as well.

Thank you very much Paolo, I had thought, and continue to think, that joining your site has been a blessing for me, for the precious advice and the encouragement you are giving me.

P.S. Paolo, regarding the lady who would have preferred a sad tenant to a pianist or a violinist, which I suppose caused you some discomfort given your evident sensitivity, since she spoke specifically to you about pianists and violinists, perhaps she would have liked, or rather deserved, not a polite neighbor pianist like you, but a guitarist or a singer like these in the video. 😆

Or these.

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)

Ahh,Ahh,Ahhh!!!!!

I totally agree with Paolo!

We need to start making music immediately, because there is truly beautiful music that isn't necessarily complex and can be made by those who are approaching the piano. So, first of all, Mikrokosmos, but also Kabalevsky's book of easy pieces, which is not played much but is really lovely. Go Gian, for Music is in each of us!

In this regard, to stay true to the discussion, I can tell you that I also live in an apartment building. Below me there are barbarians and next to me there are barbarians (fortunately they are in the attic, so at least no one is breaking anything above me!!). Normally I can't play for more than an hour or two a day since I have crazy commuting hours with the University, but in the months before various exams (transitional but especially lower and middle completion--for now only these!--) I play several hours a day. However, despite having something to say about it in the beginning, they have now made their peace with it and don't say anything to me anymore. This incredible result was possible simply by demonstrating my goodwill, as Paolo said, by limiting myself to playing outside of rest hours. And music, in the end, manages to penetrate all armor, all ignorance, and calls for respect.

And, if you really find yourself with hyper-super-ultra-mega annoying neighbors..., I would start considering performing a noble deed and gifting them a nice pair of noise-canceling headphones under the Christmas tree 😆 :lol:

A big hello!

braket wrote:

I totally agree with Paolo!

One must start making music immediately, because there is truly beautiful music that isn't necessarily complex and can be made by those who are approaching the piano. So, first of all, Mikrokosmos, but also Kabalevsky's book of easy pieces, which isn't played much but is really lovely. Go Gian, for Music is in each of us!

In this regard, to stay relevant to the discussion, I can tell you that I also live in an apartment building. Below me there are barbarians and next to me there are barbarians (fortunately they are in the attic, so at least no one is breaking my nerves above me!!). Normally I can't play for more than an hour or two a day since I have crazy commuting hours with the University, but in the months before various exams (passing but especially lower and middle completion--just these for now!--) I play several hours a day. However, despite them having something to say about it in the beginning, they have now made their peace with it and don't say anything to me anymore. This incredible result was possible simply by demonstrating my goodwill, as Paolo said, to limit playing to outside of rest hours. And music, in the end, manages to penetrate all armor, all ignorance, and calls for respect.

And, if you really find yourself with hyper-super-ultra-mega annoying neighbors..., I would start considering a noble deed and gifting them a nice pair of noise-canceling headphones under the Christmas tree 😆 :lol:

A big hello!

Hi Braket, thank you for your words, yours are also pleasantly encouraging. So far no neighbor has ever said anything to me, and they probably never will; my fear of disturbing is more of a fixation, an unmotivated fear of bothering others, but if I stop just playing scales, if I especially avoid playing them for many hours, and if I start playing pleasant melodies as well, within my reach as a beginner student, as you and Paolo suggest, I might even win the sympathy of my neighbors. Anyway, I am organizing myself differently because so far I have been a bit out of sync. That is, I started studying piano about three years ago and studied with a teacher for a few months, then I had some problems and had to stop playing and studying for a year, and only a few months ago did I start studying again, returning to those exercises my old teacher had started having me study. In recent months I contacted a civic music school to continue my studies with them, but given the proximity of the summer course closures, they told me to contact them again in September to enroll in the course starting in October. So, when I start studying again in October under the guidance of a teacher, I will ask to study, alongside the usual exercises, the books you and Paolo recommended: Kabalevsky, Bartók's Mikrokosmos, Stravinsky's "Five Fingers", Schumann's Album for the Young... Thank you all for the encouragement, courtesy, and affection: Paolo is right when he writes that this forum is a family.

A big hello from me too!

Disturbing the neighbors is also a matter of luck (in my case, bad luck and good luck)... Let me explain better. I have two houses: a villa in the countryside in the province of Viterbo and an apartment here in Rome. Bad luck dictated that the apartment be here in Rome and not vice versa. If I had a villa in the countryside here in Rome, who would I disturb even at 5 in the morning?

Luck has decreed that in my building there are quite elite people, except for one resident. Often my mother has opened the front door to go downstairs, finding some neighbor standing on the stairs to listen to me play. In my good fortune, I had the bad luck that the only resident who cannot stand the "excessive sound," as he calls it, lives right above my house. Imagine, he asked me if it was possible to "lower the piano"; rhymingly, I replied: "Sure, if you have a saw, I can cut its legs off!" The matter was eventually resolved amicably by mutually agreeing on times when I can play. Fortunately, there are laws that protect us musicians! The emission must not exceed a certain dB threshold and one must play within reasonable hours. Paolo should know the exact figures since he performed an assessment for a friend of ours—whom I won't name, but who can speak about this matter himself if he wishes. In other words, we have at least a minimum level of protection. Our neighbors should thank heaven that we don't play the drums; then things would truly get ugly!

TheSimon wrote:

Disturbing the neighbors is also a matter of luck (in my case, bad luck and good luck)... Let me explain better. I have two houses: a villa in the countryside in the province of Viterbo and an apartment here in Rome. Bad luck dictated that the apartment be here in Rome and not vice versa. If I had a villa in the countryside here in Rome, who would I be disturbing even at 5 in the morning?

Luck has decreed that in my apartment building there are quite elite people, except for one resident. Often my mother has opened the front door to go downstairs, finding some neighbor standing on the stairs to listen to me play. In my good fortune, I had the bad luck that the only resident who cannot stand the "excessive sound," as he defines it, lives right above my house. Imagine, he asked me if it was possible to "lower the piano"; for rhyme's sake, I replied: "Sure, if you have a saw, I can cut its legs off!" The matter was eventually resolved amicably by mutually agreeing on times when playing is allowed. Fortunately, there are laws that protect us musicians! The emission must not exceed a certain dB threshold and one must play within reasonable hours. Paolo should know the exact figures since he performed an appraisal for a friend of ours—whom I won't name, but who can speak about this matter himself if he wishes. In other words, we have at least a minimum level of protection. Our neighbors should thank heaven that we don't play the drums; then it would truly be bitter trouble!

We must nonetheless always hope never to find ourselves with intolerant neighbors because, unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, it seems that in our Italy the musician's right to play in an apartment building is not guaranteed, at least according to the answer from the lawyer I found in the following link. I am curious to know what the legislation of other nations provides regarding people playing in apartment buildings.

http://www.nienteansia.it/forum/l-avvocato-risponde/suonare-il-pianoforte-in-un-condominio/11647

Just now I happened to read an article that does not talk about our beloved piano, but talks about apartment buildings, about the difficult relationship between neighbors—that is, those who get annoyed by another neighbor, which can include the piano, and so we are on theme with the title of this discussion. The problem, in my opinion, is that we are living in difficult times in which more and more people tend to lose their mental sanity if they reach the point of feeling annoyed even by the smells of spices used in the kitchen.

http://www.unita.it/rubriche/italiarazzismo/la-tolleranza-tra-etnie-passa-anche-dal-condominio-1.311956

exactly so. But beware, for those of us who are "inside" our music, when we study, everything seems beautiful and everything becomes an achievement, even passages repeated in a fragmentary way with many stops and sometimes with some stubborn "staccato/articulation". From the outside it can become a torture, because the listener does not expect what we expect and does not tolerate that continuous "partiality" which we perhaps need during study sessions. So let us speak up in defense of the poor tenant......maybe not much of a music lover and perhaps too much of a music lover!

pianoexpert wrote:

exactly so. But beware, for those of us who are "inside" our music, when we study, everything seems beautiful and everything becomes an achievement, even passages repeated in a fragmentary way with many pauses and sometimes with some stubborn "staccato/percussiveness". From the outside it can become a torture, because the listener does not expect what we expect and does not tolerate that continuous "partiality" which we perhaps need during study sessions. So let's speak up in defense of the poor tenant......who might not be much of a music lover and perhaps too much of a music lover!

Exactly, Paolo! These considerations serve to bring attention back to the beginning of the discussion, to your first post, and more precisely to the few (but sufficient) hours that Richter dedicated daily to practice: a wise way (and wise study method) to avoid making enemies of the neighbors. 😆

P.S. Thank you Paolo for this discussion, it is indeed useful and encouraging to know that it is not necessary to dedicate half a day to practice: in the long run, thinking about it, spending too much time at the piano (but the same applies to all pleasant things) could tire not only the neighbors, not only the family members living with us, but even ourselves (if for example we like a sweet so much, and we do nothing but feed on it every day, sooner or later that sweet will become unbearable to us, right?).