Choral Music Workshop 2012

IlChitarrista55 wrote:

Everything must flow with simple chords, listening again it didn't seem so disgusting to me ...evidently I still need to develop a taste

ok, first of all it is not disgusting, but you can feel that the notions you have assimilated do not yet allow you to achieve an effective result in some aspects.

as far as the fact that everything must flow with simple chords is concerned, the matter is not so .... simple

in classicism, generally speaking, there weren't many harmonic complications, but they knew perfectly how to manage the construction of a phrase, a period, and the entire formal structure; furthermore, how to manage harmonic rhythm, inversions, cadences, suspensions etc. In the end, every chord, no matter how "simple", became a powerhouse of effectiveness.

Perhaps it is time for you to focus more on these harmonic aspects rather than on the correctness of counterpoint. And it would help you greatly to analyze something classical, perhaps Haydn's Op. 33 quartets.

Compliments to Strauss for his work, I like it very much.

I hope to manage to find a few days to do mine.

comment on piece 2 (abate)

i am having a bit of difficulty with this piece, because when listening to these sounds I like them very much (and with a real choir I am convinced it would be very evocative) and technically it also seems very well done to me.

what convinces me less, however, is the underlying idea, let's call it "the inspiration": everything reduces to chromaticism, canons, typical procedures of growth, diminution, etc.

although the whole thing works and it is not easy to know how to use "banal" elements well, the score conveys a sense of scholasticism to me, albeit advanced.

i reiterate that this is not a criticism of the piece, which I like, but more of a feeling ....

if you feel like it, I would like to know what lies behind it, from the composer's point of view

Thanks Ale, I'm glad you liked it.

I don't know what you mean by the scholasticism of the score, I am certainly still going to school

Compared to last year, I put the suggestions received into practice by writing a 3-voice canon, but atonal. Since it is not a tonal work, the ear liked it very much, in the sense that the piece follows the taste I was looking for.

I know it may or may not be liked, you probably liked them

My piece is ready, at least the score; I'm going crazy trying to use the wordbuilder through Cubase, it's my first time doing it and so all hell is breaking loose...

Anyway, I'll tell you in advance that it's a piece with a minimalist flavor, no mega-counterpoints...

Great Geppino, this text didn't make me imagine great things either... I took my chromaticism and tried to develop it ....

In order of appearance ...

Comment on piece 2 Abate Faria

at the risk of sounding pedantic ...

dynamics and slurs for the vocalizations on long syllables are completely missing.

Upon a superficial listening, the ear certainly comes away happy as the sonorities are pleasant.

At a more in-depth level, however, things change ...

it is a continuous canon with various short themes that follow one another to form equally short canons ...

The first theme (m. 1) descends by semitones, the second (m. 13) ascends by semitones, the third (m. 21) descends and ascends always by semitones ...

then at m. 26 you take up the first one and at 31 a new idea enters, also in ascending semitones ...

finally at 35 the fragment varies and introduces something new, even if at 41 you return to the semitones.

Final coda with the head of the first theme, and this satisfies me.

Some notes on vocal treatment:

The syllabification of "stella Maris" is poorly placed in terms of accents:

M. 17-18 and following

the word should be "stèl-la mà-ris" whereas you place the syllable 'mà' on a weak beat.

This applies to all voices.

M. 33

i grant you the syllable 'mi' of the word 'mirante' because even if it is on a weak beat, it is on a long note.

and furthermore ... I would have had the tenors start from the low C# as a consequence of the C in the basses.

M. 41 and following

the word posterius should be syllabified po-ste-ri-us

this also applies here to all voices.

Final comment

Aside from the score layout which I have already mentioned, the voices are well treated and it does not present great difficulties in execution, which is already positive.

The initial theme would have been very suitable for the text, but with the subsequent themes all based on semitones, a fundamental monotony is created

which is only resolved at m. 35.

You chose the atonal canon and that's fine, but the various themes must be more diversified from one another.

Descending or ascending semitones are always semitones, and taken in massive doses as in this piece, they create monotony.

Handling such sparse material is difficult and risky, even if in reality with a short initial descending theme—inverted, reversed, augmented, diminished—you have put together a piece that is nonetheless listenable and performable.

Even though I do not like this type of piece, I note that there has been an improvement in your writing and that the initial idea, whether one likes it or not,
you have brought to completion in a coherent manner.

Compliments geppino ....not bad at all for a minimal piece...

A part that doesn't really seem minimal to me

That is, it gives a nice impression of harmonic richness.

Minimalism, as far as I know, is a minimalism of intent and means.

Yes, in effect the adjective "minimal" is intended as less contrapuntal development compared to my other compositions that are richer from this point of view, not as an association with true minimalism; perhaps the intent was indeed to reduce the actual quantity of notes, I lacked the "courage" to remove them... anyway thanks for the compliments.

Thanks to you too RStrauss... you know I'm up for difficult missions ...

The next one will be better, also thanks to your indications

geppino12575 wrote:

i see the text as more suitable for an
'atmosphere of reflection and introspection....'

Lucky you, this text gave me a lot of problems in terms of motivation/inspiration.

To think that I have a great introduction (coincidentally, my piece Geppino starts with an indication that reads: "introspective"), 2 beautiful themes and some interesting harmonic material but, maybe it's just me, I didn't connect with the text from the very beginning and it drags on, drags on... drags on ... I realized that the problem wasn't a lack of time but something more radical.

I asked myself what I would have done if it had been a paid commission; even now, I am not sure of the answer.

It is not a text that inspires much, actually; it is a text that, in my opinion, should be conceived in the direction of "taking notes away" rather than adding them, which is quite difficult, especially for those with a classical approach to counterpoint, which according to school criteria should be as florid and articulated as possible.

Furthermore, let's tell ourselves the truth: resorting to many notes is a safe path, at least to demonstrate knowledge of certain subjects, whereas working with few elements is risky; they must be chosen with more care so as not to make the whole thing result in being banal and lacking interest; this is why I spoke of "courage," which I lacked when I too took refuge in the safe harbor of counterpoint during the central part....

I agree Geppino, think about it, I had set everything up on a scale and 3 chords... in reality it was really about sewing those words into an adequate melodic fabric. In short, a text that doesn't feel like mine at all.

Maybe later on I will dust off the appropriately archived material ...

It is always interesting to also look at some composer's pieces and compare one's own ideas... even when they are "embryonic"

Look how long Ockeghem makes Alma's "Al" last, even punctuating it with pauses.

How much did the good Luis de Victoria write for us?

I had more expectations for Josquin des prez... on the list there is an unmistakable Palestrina

At least to see Peter Philips as well

Etc.

Congratulations to everyone. Great workshop with very good hints at experimenting with sounds.

From an original point of view, in my opinion, this is the most fruitful attempt.

I particularly appreciated the work of Strauss and Geppino (who, for the choir, has developed his own unmistakable sounds, I would say, given also the work from the last workshop).

My only hesitation regarding Geppino's work is that to sing the piece an excellent choir is needed; then, in some points towards 3/4, my personal "ear" calls for tighter entries, but you probably wanted to maintain coherence with the beginning and/or due to necessities arising from the scanning of the text.

I was particularly surprised by the final chord... I was expecting something more harmonically and contrapuntally dissonant, a rise in the soprano. Can you explain this choice? Did you want to give a sense of rest?

In any case, an excellent job, congratulations... there are some sounds that amazed me, Great!

test

I must be having problems, it won't let me edit messages, anyway I wanted to reply to cristian83: in the final agreement the soprano initially remained on G#, creating a suspended ninth harmony, then I decided to descend to the third to create a major second interval with the alto. In any case, I wouldn't have made the sopranos go up, I don't like parallel motion with the bass.

cristiank83 wrote:

From the original point of view, in my opinion, this is the most fruitful proof.

That may be true, but if you think about it carefully, it is also an obvious fact. Choral Music has always been a laboratory with fixed text and free (musical) theme... precisely, without a mandatory beginning, one is led to choose their own initial context.

Now that I think about it properly, even the one regarding the Lied had seen the most "disparate" elaborations

I relate to originality in these terms; the fact that the pieces are all different means that everyone has put something of their own into it and has given their own "mark" to the composition.

But since, in a strict sense, I don't find much that is original in chromaticism, for example, look at Abate's piece... but I could give other examples, including basic elements of my piece... eh!

What are we referring to?... curiosity...

In fact Oscar, this thing about originality always leaves me a bit perplexed ... I doubt that the goal of writing a piece is that; rather, it is better for one to develop a recognizable style.