Dissenting opinions on Giovanni Allevi

So I'll get to the point.

I am not here to judge his music. But from a sociological point of view, Allevi has had and continues to have an (allow me the term) incredible impact.

Because of my thesis, I met him in person (he is very private and much harder to reach than one might imagine).

MY IMPRESSION is that he is painted in a totally wrong way, as an arrogant man, contemptuous of colleagues, envious, ready to blast everything.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's as if he were apologizing for existing.

Pinksword wrote:

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's as if he were apologizing for existing.

Naturally. To observe the other side, the one you haven't encountered, you would have to find yourself with him in his private life.

You women (provided that you truly are one) unfortunately need three or four divorces to understand that appearances are deceiving.......

I understand, but we were talking not about the man but about his music, or am I wrong? I do not know Allevi and I do not allow myself to judge. I was saying that it is his music that I do not like. Perhaps if I met him one day, maybe I will be able to say if I like him, if there is empathy or not. From what I see in the little that I have seen and heard, I don't waste time listening to him; I prefer to do and listen to other things. However, I am happy to listen to others' opinions and I respect them.

I believe Pink's intention was precisely to make us re-evaluate Allevi's music following a reconsideration of it from a human point of view.

That, to tell the truth, is a bit like saying the same thing...

Celibidache wrote:

I believe Pink's intent was precisely to make us re-evaluate Allevi's music following a reconsideration of him from a human point of view.

Which, to tell the truth, is a bit like saying the same thing...

No, Celibidache. As I clarified at the beginning, it is not my intention to change anyone's opinion.

Rather, I want to highlight how discordant opinions can exist regarding Giovanni Allevi, just as the topic says.

Allevi's music, or Allevi the person, have no need to be re-evaluated, and let me explain why:

Ughi 2008 spoke ill of Allevi.

Pollini spoke ill of Allevi.

Chailly (daughter) spoke ill of Allevi.

Accardo spoke ill of Allevi.

Canino spoke ill of Allevi.

Muti 2016 spoke ill of Allevi.

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Augias spoke ill of Allevi.

Bollani spoke ill of Allevi.

Saturnino spoke ill of Allevi.

It seems that Einaudi spoke ill of Allevi.

Barami spoke ill of Allevi.

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Giulia Mazzoni spoke ill of Allevi.

Federica Fornabaio spoke ill of Allevi.

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A few months ago, death threats were sent to Allevi.

We estimate that for the past eight years, the cultural world has been "aligned."

One would be tempted to ask, not so much why, but... what is the outcome of this denigrating campaign?

Ughi, Pollini, Muti, Chailly, Accardo, Canino and family are not artists that I follow.

In the same way, I think like them.

Anyway Allevi is a meteor that has already passed. Now he is an artistic phenomenon for a niche of devotees. (whether wide or narrow)

The outcome, Celibidache…the outcome.

Here we go, starting to speak in riddles...

Allevi might even be a saint, but it's useless: his music doesn't interest me. What can you do...

The result is this:

his Violin Concerto (in F Minor) continues to be a violin concerto.

his Toccata and Fugue for Organ continue to be a Toccata and Fugue for Organ.

(Forgive me for writing these terms in a topic dedicated to light music)

Similarly, his Madrigal for Choir and Orchestra has not at all suffered from the death threats directed at its author.

What Toccata d'organi... Radicchio, come on... Aren't you tired yet?

Yesss, zucchini and carrots

If this is the level of the discussion, it's better if we say goodbye.

It's a shame, I would say the same about Nannini

vantir wrote:

I understand, but we were talking not about the man but about his music, or am I wrong? I do not know Allevi and I do not allow myself to judge. I was saying that it is his music that I do not like. Perhaps if one day I met him, perhaps I will be able to say if I like him, if there is empathy or not. From what I see in the little I have seen and heard, I do not waste time listening to him; I prefer to do and listen to other things. However, I gladly listen to others' opinions and I respect them.

Dear Vantir,

I appreciate the more reasonable tone of your argument.

My opinion, personal and if you wish, highly debatable, is that an authentic negative marketing operation continues to be perpetrated against Allevi, which in my opinion has a precise purpose.

A personality who, for better or worse, is writing very demanding and courageous works, is being called a "paper tiger" or musically incompetent.

I wonder about it myself, but even the housewife from Voghera asks: what significant things have the various Muti, Pollini, Accardo, Ughi and co. composed? Have they ever written a concerto for violin and orchestra or a sacred cantata?

This, in my view, is an argument that silences everyone.

Why must Muti resort to the word "little songs" when Allevi has never written a single song?

Or should I think that in the chaos of communication, anything and its opposite goes?

Pinksword wrote:

Why must Muti resort to the word "canzonette" [little songs] when Allevi has never written a single song?

Excuse me, but he has written "canzonette" in industrial quantities. Thanks for the attempt Pinksword (are you related to Fiamma Iboni?) but it's not me saying it, the notes are saying it

Forgive me Pink, but if you think you are defending Allevi by trying to denigrate the images of "milestones" of music such as Ughi, Pollini, Accardo, and Muti, then it is truly useless for us to be here discussing because I have absolutely no desire to descend into discussions whose content is ridiculous by definition.

In my opinion, the point we must discuss is this... Allevi claims to have invented a new musical genre: "Modern classical music." In my opinion, and not just mine, he composes Pop music. If placed next to Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Allevi disappears, and that is what Ughi, Muti, and the whole gang claim. One does not need to be a composer to express such an opinion. I am not a Chef, but if I am given a dish cooked by a Chef, I can say whether it is good or if it disgusts me. Joe Bastianich is not a Chef, he is a restaurateur, but as an expert, he certainly understands more about dishes than I do. Here the argument is perfectly analogous. Pollini is not a composer, but one certainly cannot say that he is not an extremely learned person regarding music, surely much more than you and me, just as Bastianich was when speaking about cuisine.

If I want to dismantle Bastianich's opinion, I cannot say that he doesn't understand shit, because I wouldn't be discrediting Bastianich but would instead come across as a fool for saying it. So, either I construct an argument motivated by objectivity or one that is at least persuasive in its logic—something that can make others notice different points of view—or I limit myself to saying that Bastianich doesn't understand shit and I look like a fool.

Simone, I wouldn't want to contradict you, but Pollini is also a composer

Furthermore, there is a beautiful testimony from Bettinelli that tells of Pollini as a composition student

Bruno Bettinelli: "Musical Composition" - Rugginenti
http://www.rugginenti.it/item.php?id=RE%201085

Pinksword wrote:

I wonder myself, but so does the housewife of Voghera: what significant works have various Muti, Pollini, Accardo, Ughi and co. composed? Have they ever written a violin concerto or a sacred cantata?

This, in my opinion, is a topic that silences everyone.

Frankly, my own opinion is enough for me; I don't need anyone else's. I have works in my catalog far more extensive, significant, and numerous than Allevi's. A nice attempt, but a couple of swallows (ugly and insignificant, wherever they may have been seen) do not make a spring. He remains someone who writes pop music; as Tiger says, the notes say it themselves, there is no need for anything else.

... there is little to silence. Perhaps you, being the classic housewife of Voghera, have a distorted view of what can be significant. Selling pop music records is significant of only one thing, if we mean the same thing ... we are talking precisely about someone who writes pop music. Nothing wrong with that.

Pinksword wrote:

he is writing very demanding and courageous works.

Practically a martyr

I must say that this C major arpeggio from the hymn of Series A really killed him. But please, if by courage we mean the courage not to be ashamed, then we agree.

Ettore wrote:

Practically a martyr

I must say that this C major arpeggio from the hymn of series A really killed him. But please, if by courage we mean the courage not to be ashamed, then we agree.

What should he have done, a dodecaphonic series? :-)

It is true that everyone is free to express their own opinion, while respecting the person, but analogously, a composer must feel free to write whatever they want, don't you think?