Light Music

Dissenting opinions on Giovanni Allevi

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stefano

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Reply 121 by LucaCavaliere

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interesting discussion

i am going further OT not for a contribution but for a suggestion.

Someone touched upon the topic of listening to music in the car. Well, if there is anyone like me who has a car that is not of the latest generation, and thus rather noisy, regardless of the musical genre I recommend listening to music produced by string instruments.

it is the type of sound that more than others stands out above the roar of the engine and other traffic noises.

piano, lute, guitar, but ... the harpsichord above all. Try it and tell me!

i still remember with love-hate my Alfa 33 from 20 years ago ... my wife and I had even thought about buying an intercom device like motorcyclists use to talk between one helmet and the other

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Reply 122 by zenigata

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LucaCavaliere wrote:

I still remember with love-hate my alfa33 from 20 years ago ... my wife and I had even thought about buying an intercom device like motorcyclists use to talk between one helmet and the other

Wow! Was it that noisy?

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Reply 123 by LucaCavaliere

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zenigata wrote:

Wow! Was it making that much noise?

Let's forget about it... when the boxer engine "sang," we all had to be silent

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Reply 127 by Pinksword2

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DrJellyfish wrote:

Where has Pink gone? Oh, you always fall for it

Thank goodness someone is thinking of me!!! I HAVE BEEN BANNNNNED!!!!!

And yet, it didn't seem to me that I had written anything offensive.

Before getting banned again, I would like to report a beautiful initiative to you! (The communication is from today)

On May 18th, Giovanni Allevi, with the Parma Opera Choir and the Italian Symphony Orchestra, will hold a concert in favor of AIRC for the fight against childhood tumors, at the Teatro degli Arcimboldi in Milan.

In the concert, Allevi will conduct music by Bach, Handel, Mozart, Rossini, Verdi, Orff and... himself!

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Reply 128 by Thesimon

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Don't make things up... Only I can ban people here and I assure you that I did not ban you. Maybe you forgot your password.

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Reply 129 by Thesimon

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Actually, there is a problem.... Someone tagged you as a Spammer. After a certain number of tags, the system automatically blocks you.

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Reply 130 by Pinksword2

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TheSimon wrote:

There actually is a problem.... Someone tagged you as a Spammer. After a certain number of tags, the system automatically blocks you.

TheSimon,

it isn't pleasant to be suddenly excluded from a discussion, but I had taken it into account.

In any case, staying consistent with the topic title, I believe it is also necessary to hear the other side of the story.

Let's keep an eye on Celibidache. Although driven by a deep resentment against Allevi (which he fails to disguise well), he says very significant things here and there, which I would have liked to explore further, if I hadn't been removed.

If I am to be banned again, please, give me reasonable notice.

Thank you!

Pink

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Reply 131 by Thesimon

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Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. Let me rephrase the concept... Inside here, the privileges to ban people belong only to me, and I haven't banned you.

However, if a certain number of people tag you as a spammer, the system is calibrated to automatically distance you without me having to do anything, and precisely because of this, I cannot know about it and I cannot warn anyone. This demonstrates the democracy we want to have on this forum, where it's not just me deciding, but the entire community. The reason why you were presumably tagged as a spammer is not difficult to imagine...

This is not a forum about Giovanni Allevi; if you come here and participate solely in discussions about Giovanni and in no other section and, additionally, advertise his events, his books, and his other material, it is not difficult to understand why they tagged you as a spammer.

As the saying goes, if you were removed not by me but by a certain number of people, ask yourself a question and give yourself an answer...

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Reply 132 by Tiger

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Simple Pinksword, just avoid trolling. In case of doubt, the wiki always helps

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

A suggestion could be to also participate in other discussions, and not just this one

See for example:

A common trolling technique consists of taking a position in a blatant, superficial, and decisive manner on an issue perceived as sensitive and already debated by other members of the community (for example a religion war). In other cases, the troll intervenes in an apparently senseless or deliberately naive way, with the aim of ridiculing those users who, not understanding their objectives, strive to respond appropriately, thereby generating further discussion without reaching any concrete conclusion.

But read everything, it's good for you

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

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Reply 133 by studioregistrazionebresso

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I am not a pianist and I am not able to judge, but the fact is that if a musician becomes famous, they may perhaps have little technique, but certainly great communicative ability, and that is what matters; many musicians worry about becoming good by sinking into their creative selfishness aimed at satisfying only themselves. It is better to have fewer notes, less technique, but the thoughtfulness of composing while thinking of those who will listen to you; there is a big difference between those who play for themselves and those who instead do it thinking of the listeners, or at least both things. Another important thing to add is that we fail to see the positive side of this phenomenon, which is that for once, a rare time, when a musician who knows how to play an instrument (and I don't care at what level their technique is) is miraculously known by the general public, we ourselves try to destroy the myth just because it didn't happen to us; I want to see each of us in our own place. I have learned not to envy, not to judge; the only thing that interests me is to listen and always learn, to enjoy the musician's life that has been given to me, to enjoy even the music of others... if there were thousands, two thousand, millions like Allevi who managed to make themselves known, then musical culture would grow; I am happy that a pianist is recognized and has become famous, because for once we can delude ourselves that this society, this audience of little culture, can finally open its eyes and appreciate an instrument truly played and a musician who plays! Do it, because if we don't do it, we will do nothing more than enlarge the flock of sheep!

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Reply 134 by Thesimon

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From what you say, it is very clear that you haven't read all the users' replies. No one here is envious of Giovanni Allevi, and this is evident throughout the entire discussion... As far as I/we are concerned, what we want to remind everyone is that there are people much more prepared than Giovanni Allevi, both from a composer's and a pianist's perspective—Masters who are wandering aimlessly because they didn't have the luck of meeting the right people in the right place at the right time (not by "miracle" as you euphemistically described in your post), and this is perfectly in line with today's Italy, where there is no investment in culture and brilliant minds are forced to go abroad to find a little light, precisely because the place that belonged to them here in Italy has been occupied by some puppet who was undeservedly placed there by someone else... Not through merit, then, but through connections and political pushes. You speak of "musical culture" and Allevi is certainly not the example... Musical culture is built by studying and investing time in it, with sacrifice and much listening—certainly not by listening to something that arrives instantly precisely because it is lacking in content. To draw a parallel, if I have to speak of literary culture, I take Dante as an example, certainly not Fabio Volo (with all due respect), even if the numbers would seem to shift the balance toward Fabio Volo.

The reason is very simple... Fabio Volo certainly uses a simpler and more immediate language; he reaches everyone precisely because his reading does not require literary preparation. In Dante, there is genius. I still remember when I studied the Divine Comedy in scientific high school... Some passages gave me goosebumps. In it, one tastes the perfection of the structure, the continuous references to human knowledge across various disciplines (not only literary but also scientific, historical, linguistic). We cannot say we can truly express a serious opinion on a literary work if we have not engaged with the most demanding works, those that do not arrive immediately and must be read, studied, and explored in depth. If one does not know literature, one cannot express thoughts related to technicalities, and the only thing we can say is:

- I liked it -

or else

- I didn't like it -

Music is no exception, and if one does not deeply know the works of the greats of music—just as the same parallel of Dante in Italian literature is true—our opinion lacks great credentials and appears, to those who do know, coarse and useless.

Returning then to the subject of this topic, as I have already said in past posts, the greatness of a composer is recognized "over time." Only the greats of music have known how to leave us something that endures and resists time and the various styles that have followed, just as Dante did for literature. If you think about it, this is extraordinary. Not necessarily wanting to talk about theater and opera, just to lower the stakes, one only needs to think of the general public: in cinemas, as on the radio, pieces of so-called "classical" music are still used today. If Allevi does not enter the category of the greats, only time can prove this, and anyway I, like others, harbor strong doubts that his music will stay afloat.

Today there are no excuses for being "sheep." The vast majority of Italians are sheep because they are slaves to a sick system; they are lazy, they have no desire to learn, to grow, or to build their own cultural background.

For people of our time, finding information is as easy as drinking a glass of water. In a connected world, information is at your fingertips 24/7. If you don't know something, you open the internet and search for it; we can buy books from anywhere in the world instantly, ebooks, etc. Therefore, the solution is not to listen to the first thing the media feeds us and play into their game, but to engage with the great works that have resisted time, to study, and then to evaluate with knowledge what others want us to listen to... The solution is to become passionate about a subject and study it deeply, trying to document oneself as much as possible.

Ultimately, no one would have been so harsh with Giovanni Allevi if he had been a more humble person, without pushing themselves to utter words that attempted to undermine the greatness of Beethoven and which, in response, obviously ridiculed him for having the audacity to say them... As far as I am concerned (my personal consideration), the Greats are those who share their knowledge with passion, in a simple way, with a smile on their lips and great humility because they have nothing to prove, unlike someone else who has immolated themselves as the "inventor of new classical music"; here are the messages"}

viral and dangerous, what Allevi passes on, messages to which the "sheep" obviously believe, and when you say "if there were 2000 Allevis," this danger increases exponentially: that is, giving as an "high" example something low; musical culture would not only fail to grow but would plummet even worse than its current state.

Besides, as a litmus test, it seems to me that no one has anything to say against Fabio Volo; he does his job and there is nothing wrong with this, regardless of the quality of his pen (later there will be those who buy his books and those who do not because they prefer other genres or authors), and perhaps this happens because Volo never had the audacity to say that Dante lacked a "sense of metrics."

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Reply 136 by danielescarpetti

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TheSimon wrote:

Masters who are wandering aimlessly because they were not lucky enough to meet the right people in the right place and at the right time (not by "miracle" as you euphemistically described in your post) and this is perfectly in line with today's Italy where there is no investment in culture and brilliant minds are forced to go abroad to find a little light, precisely because the place that belonged to them here in Italy has been occupied by some puppet who was undeservedly placed there by someone else... Not due to merit then, but due to connections and political pushes. You speak of "musical culture" and Allevi is certainly not the example... Musical culture is built by studying and investing time in it, with sacrifice and much listening, certainly not by listening to something that arrives instantly precisely because it is lacking in content.

My dear Simone, first of all, hello!

I very much appreciated this intervention of yours, heartfelt and passionate, as often happens in your similar posts. I gave a like because I think what you write is substantially true and, above all, it is the battle - or one of the battles - that we - and by us I mean the "best Italy" - must continue to tirelessly support.

And yet, I think it is right never to fall into an error - and this regardless of our ideas, whether political or non-political - which is not wanting to - or being able to - recognize what good there can be or is in the political class that directs us. Just today, May 1st - Workers' Day - the government has allocated 1 billion for culture and 2.5 billion for research. I don't think I am wrong in saying that from 1945 to today, none of the countless governments that have succeeded each other has ever allocated so much for these subjects. Now - I repeat: regardless and without wanting to take anything away from our political ideas or convictions - I think it is honest to acknowledge those who govern us for having this merit which creates, at least, the roots of a turning point in attitude towards culture and research.

This, obviously and without any doubt, does not mean that we must now lower our guard and that we should not continue to demand ever greater attention toward all of this: on the contrary: we must continue to press those who govern us and will govern us on these subjects but - excuse me if I repeat myself - it would be unfair and dishonest not to recognize in those responsible a will, an attitude, and a practical act different from the past.

1 miliardo per la cultura e 2,5 miliardi per la ricerca

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Reply 137 by Thesimon

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I take note of this, but I always keep my feet on the ground because figures remain just figures if results are not seen, and normally, alas, that is always the practice. Playing devil's advocate just to provide an example, billions of euros were allocated even for immigration which only saw cooperatives get richer; I wouldn't want this to be yet another attempt at electoral propaganda that will then result in the usual general "mass corruption".

It is not bad faith on my part but, just to give one example among many, here in Rome lately a situation that is at least ambiguous is being experienced... I should preface that I do not follow football, but I have read from very reliable sources that the A.S. Roma club would like to build a sports complex with adjacent commercial areas, restaurants, and entertainment. Furthermore, having obtained nothing from the municipal administration, they found private funds, project financiers; therefore, the municipality should not invest even a single euro. For the realization of this project, major entities and figures who have already built important stadiums all over the world have been called upon, and the beautiful thing is that all of this is supposed to be built in a marshy area. You can well understand then that it could represent a great added value for Italy regarding the bid for the Rome 2024 Olympics, which would save the state quite a bit of money on the construction of the 3 sports complexes required for the Olympic activities, having a stadium with latest-generation design already at its disposal. A project like this would bring thousands of jobs and reclaim an area that is worth nothing, intrinsically increasing the value of existing real estate in the immediate vicinity. In short, there are no cons, only pros! All geological checks have already been carried out and they gave the okay for construction.

Now, I haven't been able to find any other explanation for the denial of permits other than the fact that, being a private project funded by private individuals, the administration cannot eat a few million on top of it as always happens in fake municipal and regional tenders. You could tell me that if this is the risk, then the municipality could have participated immediately. This also cannot happen because currently the municipality of Rome has a debt of about 13 billion euros, so there would be no money to invest in a project costing one billion euros. The same goes for the regional level since the Lazio Region also has debts approaching 11 billion euros (figure updated to April 2016 according to the Lazio region debt bulletin).

Besides, given the precedents, I can no longer be positive. When you get burned once, you think twice before putting your hand in the fire again.

Returning to research, among other things, many of my university colleagues stayed at the university to do research doctorates and are now researchers, and they don't speak well of the environment... Starvation wages aside, there are a series of serious structural problems to solve. In my opinion, weights need to be assigned because saying to invest 1 billion euros in culture and 2.5 billion in research is very vague. At the moment, universities do not even have the money to restock teaching laboratories. Researchers (who should be doing research) often find themselves also doing teaching due to lack of staff (because there is no money). All this with a salary that, in the best-case scenario, does not reach 900 euros per month!!

This is why I think politicians' words don't carry much weight. To effectively evaluate how things are going, one must go inside the entities, inside the research institutes and see if a change is actually being recorded. Personally, I have never been a fanatic of words, but I have always valued facts. I have had many friends who told me they loved me and then behind my back they did all sorts of things to me. I prefer a friend who says nothing to me but shows me that they care about our friendship. Here the discussion is totally analogous.

In any case, I have no problem recognizing facts regardless of who (right, left, or center) performed them; I consider myself very impartial in this, and 3.5 billion euros of investment is a decidedly considerable figure and should bring visible results, so we will see these results and perhaps talk about them again in a while... Crossing my fingers in anticipation and with the hope that my hesitations are only the fruit of my vivid imagination... In short, I hope to rewrite in a few months, happy to have been wrong.

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Reply 138 by danielescarpetti

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TheSimon wrote:

I take note of it, but I always keep my feet on the ground because figures remain just figures if results are not seen, and normally the practice, alas, is always this. Playing devil's advocate just to provide an example, billions of euros have been allocated even for immigration which only saw cooperatives get richer; I wouldn't want this to be yet another attempt at electoral propaganda that will then result in the usual "general widespread corruption."

I have no problem subscribing to everything you have written - even regarding "friends" - and, for this reason, I said that never, ever should we let our guard down. It is important to look at the facts because we are all good with words: right, center, left, and those who do not want to be categorized into these factions but define themselves as transversal. Our problem - at least one of them - is that we have poor memory and are often influenced by day-to-day events, forgetting the past - or as they say in Naples; "scurdammuce il passato" [let's forget the past] - whereas historical memory is fundamental in evaluating today and the future.

Therefore, the struggle continues and will always continue to demand a fairer and better world, because this is what we owe to those who come after us. No concessions are being made, but likewise, intellectual honesty must never fail and be sidelined by partisan prejudices.

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Reply 139 by Thesimon

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Repeating Zenigata's words, I too quote every single word of your intervention!

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Reply 140 by LucaCavaliere

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TheSimon wrote:

Repeating Zenigata's words, I too quote every single word of your intervention!

Dear Simone...

Thinking about your post from May 1st (which began "From what you say, it is very clear that you haven't read all the users' replies").

Aside from the fact that I appreciate the content (and this was evident from the 'like' I gave)... I also feel like saying to you: compliments on your patience!!!

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