Fugue Workshop 2014

@cristiank83, could we have an mp3?

Thank you

Technical problems, it wouldn't accept a certain file format and so I converted everything to mp3

!!! ... So, what do we do? Do we all go ahead, or do we stay quiet until the deadline? I would be for the second option anyway, provided others aren't eager to publish. I have finished mine, but I am happy to wait. It won't be long, and in the meantime, we can listen to and comment on Cristian's. I don't know, you tell me.

P.S. Bianca, how far along are you? Are there others on the way?

CromaDiBrera wrote:

!!! ... So, what do we do? Do we go ahead of everyone else, or do we stay quiet until the deadline? I would be for the second option anyway, provided that others aren't eager to publish. I have finished mine, but I am happy to wait. It won't be long, and in the meantime, we can listen to and comment on Cristian's. I don't know, you tell me.

P.S. Bianca, how far along are you? Are there others arriving?

I wrote mine months ago, so I could also publish, but I would wait for the deadline, as we discussed

Croma, whenever you feel ready! Keep in mind that I have also published with months of "delay" and the Workshops are always open... for me, you can even participate in the old ones by posting today

Do as you wish, in the meantime there is already the first escape to comment on... you others can let them arrive whenever you want.

No one ever slacks off here, eh! Even "premature" ones

@Cistian, after a first listen the fugue doesn't seem bad to me, I need to look at it calmly. I suffer a bit from the rhythmic "schematicism" of the CS or rather, the fact is that it probably could have been articulated better.

I always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, I provide the response in Italian.

I always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, I provide the response in Italian.

[RunAI:lang=it]
Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

Keep in mind that it is a scholastic fugue that follows a pre-established pattern.

The countersubject is in a certain sense "obligatory," as I conducted a small "investigation" before writing it, calculating not only the melodic quality

but above all the harmonies both above and below in double counterpoint and in 4 voices.

If you want, try an experiment: take the subject and countersubject, swap them, calculate the harmonies, and you will realize that they are very well-established.

The need for this arises from the fact that when I have to compose the fugue for the exam, I will need a certain writing speed and everything must already "fit together" perfectly.

It would have been different in a freer and more personal fugue where I usually try not to use traditional harmonies or conventional structures (they have already written plenty of beautiful traditional fugues, I don't want to retrace the past too much...).

It must be said that I wanted to do all the transpositions in all keys, including the answer; probably a bit too much, because this burns through scale degrees for the final stretto and the novelty effect is somewhat diminished.

As previously stated, these are patterns that I must respect.

*for Croma: Where is the first species counterpoint?? Perhaps you meant that the downbeat is particularly accented. But if you take the subject and countersubject together, there are also pauses, the start/upbeat of the subject which contrasts the counterpoint... there is a certain rhythmic complementarity that obviously cannot be too accentuated due to the great movement of the subject.

However, Cristian, it wasn't your harmonic content that was discussed, but the articulation, which is a bit different. In fact, the score is written for choir and the playback for other instruments. For which ensemble should the flourish be considered? I ask because from my point of view, it would be enough to insert some repetitions in the CS [Soprano/Alto], starting from bar 6 included; I am referring to the half notes.

Bar 6: "mi" as a quarter note and "pause mi" as an eighth note

Bar 7: "sol#" as a quarter note and "pause sol#" as an eighth note

Bar 9: "fal#" as a dotted quarter note and "fa#" as an eighth note (as the start of bar 9)

Or variants of this kind, in order to eliminate that sense of "pause/stop" that some felt.

Anyway, I still have to look at it in detail; I only went through a few bars of the exposition just to understand what Croma and Faria meant.

Just like that Frank, I didn't mean harmony but embellishment; indeed, if the fugue were vocal, perhaps the tenor starts a bit low... in short, it reaches the lowest E immediately for that voice.

Let's wait for Cristian to shed light on the instrumentation of his fugue.

Of course, it would certainly help the movement; I probably held the white notes long because, thinking of a "choir" ensemble, I felt the need for sonic continuity.

A small note: I thought of the countersubject starting from measure 7. Measure 6 is a sort of "transition."

This also justifies the low E, since my countersubject starts from measure seven and by changing the register to tenor, I make it heard clearly.

(I also found some Cs for tenor in literature)

cristiank83 wrote:

(I also found some Do for tenor in the literature)

Really? But which vocal work are you referring to?... I am curious.

cristiank83 wrote:

*for Croma: Where is the first species counterpoint?? Perhaps you meant that the downbeat is particularly accented. But if you take the subject and countersubject together, there are also pauses, the start on the upbeat of the subject which contrasts the counterpoint... there is a certain rhythmic complementarity that obviously cannot be too accentuated due to the great movement of the subject.

You are right, I didn't express myself properly: I meant, as you understood, that the downbeat is very accented because, aside from the mobility induced by the subject, what you wrote is almost entirely composed of minims and semiminims. Naturally, I did not intend to make any criticism and, in fact, I would never be able to do what you have done (you will see for yourself), nor to write an exam-level fugue in a short amount of time. In my ignorance, I began with compliments and my comment is not technical, but refers to a general impression. Of course, if it is a fugue for voices, then I also well understand the reason for the rhythmic flow.

But I repeat, to avoid any misunderstanding: you seem very good to me, from what I can tell, and I like your fugue very much.

Oracolo wrote:

Really? But which vocal work are you referring to?... I am curious.

In Cherubini's Requiem, if I remember correctly, towards the Lacrimosa, I sang the tenor part and had to sing a C one octave below middle C.

It was the final lament, if I remember correctly, so a calm and restful final point.

I also placed a C somewhere in the fugue, and even my contralto sometimes goes as high as G below middle C; in any case, the rule I use is not to assign an important melodic line, or a very harmonically important note, on these extensions.

Usually, I ask myself: could the musical discourse remain standing even if that note were not heard?

If the answer is yes, I include the note.

CromaDiBrera wrote:

You are right, I didn't express myself properly: I meant, as you understood, that the beat is very accentuated because, aside from the mobility induced by the subject, what you have written consists almost entirely of minim and semiminim notes. Of course, I did not intend to make any criticism and, in fact, I would never be able to do what you have done (you will see for yourself), nor write an exam-level fugue in a short amount of time. In my ignorance, I started with compliments and my comment is not technical, but refers to a general impression. Of course, if it is a fugue for voices, then I also well understand the reason for the rhythmic pattern.

But I repeat, to avoid any misunderstanding: you seem very good to me, from what I can tell, and I like your fugue very much.

Don't worry

In effect, this criticism makes sense.

Initially, I had developed a subject with more rhythmic contrast, but I had to abandon it due to harmonic issues as previously mentioned.

I am very open to criticism that serves to improve, I just try at the same time to make my reasons understood when I probably felt compelled because perhaps I couldn't find a better solution.

P.S. You will see that the fugue will come to you soon; it is not such a gigantic leap when you study. You just need to try, retry, and be followed a little bit.

I have never done Fux's counterpoint (or at least very little) with species, since you use that language I know you are familiar with it.

I don't find it very useful and my teacher and I have always "snubbed" it.

Divergent for ancient counterpoint; there we stopped for quite a while, also analyzing many pieces with quite a few voices.

cristiank83 wrote:

P.S. You'll see that the fugue will come to you soon; it's not such a gigantic passage when you study. You just need to try, retry, and be a little followed.

I have never done Fux's counterpoint (or at least very little) with species since you use that language, I know you know it.

Thanks for the encouragement, but I don't know the language of Fux's counterpoint and I haven't the slightest idea what species are. Unfortunately, I was only followed for a few months for harmony (on Piston), but for the rest, I managed on my own (and it shows). Anyway, I'll be arriving shortly too. I'm just working on the sound (at least I'm saving myself a bit with that), because proposing it "naked and raw" would definitely be quite "unsustainable," I think.

@cristiank83, for me you would definitely pass/will pass the exam

Oh my god, the problem is always the tempo!! I am SLOW

Thank you

It's part of the job, Cristian, I don't know if you have an exam of 18 or 36 hours ... but modern times demand certain performances even in writing, I'm not saying today for tomorrow... but one always has too little time. Therefore, it is welcome that even during the exam one has limited minutes.

Consider that 36 hours is an exaggeration... 18 hours are extremely tight

cromatismo wrote:

It's part of the job, Cristian; I don't know if you have an exam of 18 or 36 hours... but modern times demand certain performances even in writing—I'm not saying today for tomorrow... but one always has too little time. Therefore, it is welcome that even during the exam one has minutes counted.

Consider that 36 hours is an exaggeration... 18 hours are extremely tight.

For the Fugue, are there also 36-hour clauses? I thought 18 hours were the standard, and 36 were reserved only for the Diploma... but I don't know if anything has changed with the new regulations!

And anyway, to write a good Fugue, perhaps without the help of the piano, 36 hours wouldn't have seemed like an exaggeration to me, after all!