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How to Approach Mozart's First Sonata

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carletto

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Reply 21 by Carlos

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Gianni22 wrote:

I have a curiosity, is there always and only one fingering for every passage?

Avevo inteso che non esisteva una diteggiatura valida in assoluto...ma forse avevo capito male.

You understood perfectly, but for every passage, there are fingerings that are more or less favorable, let's say... It always depends, as you were told, on what you want to achieve, musically and technically, from each passage. I only said that, of all the possible fingerings to perform a trill on two white keys, the least advisable is 24 (I would never have suggested it, at least), but if they want to convince you that it is the best fingering in the world, all you have to do is try them all (I have written a couple myself) and see which one works best for you...

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Reply 22 by ttw

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Carlos wrote:

The fact that we were talking about pieces born for the harpsichord matters little: whoever started the discussion plays this sonata on the piano and the fingering changes in this case, due to the different mechanics.

...you know I had understood a different point; it seemed we were talking about evoking "distant" sonorities ... see harpsichord, virginal, etc.

Carlos wrote:

PS for ttw: do you use 24 to trill on two consecutive white keys?

Interesting specification; in your first post, you took it for granted that we were referring to 2 consecutive keys.

For me, the valid pedagogical principle that seemed to be in Pestatasti's request applies.

pestatasti wrote:

Would you have any advice for studying trills, mordents, and ornaments in general?

I would be very interested.

Effectively, a specific fingering is not being asked for ...but how to learn to execute it.

At least that is what I understand.

How would you teach someone who cannot manage to apply the fingering you suggested (1-3)? In short, the method, rather than the finger numbers?

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Reply 23 by gianni22

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Thanks, then I understood correctly

Carlos wrote:

they want to convince you that it is the best fingering in the world

It seems to me that I read that it was just a small example to explain the variant of the repeated note... I didn't find anything written saying that 2-4 is the best combination in the world.

Since we are on the subject, if the thumb were busy holding a voice... let's say in Bach due to another voice, after 1-3 what would be the best combination... with the thumb out of the way?

If I understood correctly, 3-5. But perhaps it is better to have a real passage on hand; maybe I will try to look among the pieces that I like and want to study.. and I will submit it to you.

Thanks again

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Reply 24 by carletto

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I thank everyone, also for the warm exchange of opinions, there is always something new to learn from you.

Thank you so much again

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Reply 25 by Carlos

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ttw wrote:

Interesting specification, in your first post you took for granted that it referred to 2 consecutive keys.

I specified it now because I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing. But it wouldn't have been necessary, since we were talking about a trill (and not a tremolo).

ttw wrote:

How would you teach someone who is unable to apply the fingering you suggested (1-3)? In short, the method, rather than the number of fingers?

I don't think I am able to give piano lessons via blog, so I will refrain.

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Reply 26 by pianoexpert

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Interesting discussion. Although not exhaustive, you can see my Video Tutorial on Mozart's Sonata K330. First and second movements.

Now, regarding "fingering", I would like to abolish this term. Which fingering? Which one do you use? On such an edition it is marked.... etc...

Indeed Frank, implicitly and not only, in his words invokes "naturalness". There are no precise rules. There must not be, in my opinion. (I avoid always repeating "in my opinion". My statements should not seem "absolute"... "in my opinion"... always imply it!)

Seeing the Greats is fine, but a fingering that works for Gould may not work for another pianist (perhaps "by absurdity" even more "skilled" than him). Why??

Great question!!!!

Let's return to the beginning of the "pianistic gesture"... of that succession of movements that allow the pianist to resolve the passage to be performed with "ease". In every pianist, the gesture is realized in a different way. The chosen fingering, the right one, the one that conforms to the shape of one's own hand (here is the catch!), will also visually offer that ease which is the sister of "facility". Once, a friend told me: "When you play, it seems like you aren't doing anything". And it's a beautiful compliment.

In reality, everything we see as "easy" implies great physical and mental work. The "Duck concept". When we see a duck running on the surface of the water, it seems light and relaxed to us. It seems that for it everything is easy.... but underneath, in the water, where we cannot see, there is great work!!!!

Now, without talking about "advice"... I would like to suggest to beginners to grow and work, trying to understand what is best for their own hand. At the beginning, it should be the task of a good Teacher, who, observing the student, suggests the postures and fingerings most suitable for them and for them "in that phase of study". In fact, no fingering can ever be "for life". Progressing naturally makes us review certain positions and certain technical-musical solutions.

Regarding Mozart, the discussion is infinite, as His Music is infinite. A pianist friend once told me at the end of one of his concerts: "when I play Mozart, I feel a little tingling under my fingers!!!! It's a music different from all others!". It might seem trivial, but it isn't!

I would suggest taking care of, as Frank and others well suggest, the ornaments. Never as in Mozart are ornaments so fundamental. It's not that they aren't in Bach or Beethoven, but in Mozart the "blush" and "eyeshadow" light up with light!!!! I highly recommend the book by Badura Skoda that I cite in my tutorial. I find it an excellent work. It speaks of ornaments and the Music of the Great Composer in general. Beautiful.

In Mozart, one can experiment with all the fundamental basic gestures of pianistic technique. Studying a little hands separately helps us understand what the elements are and which fundamental gesture to associate (see Video).

Then start playing hands together for phrases, or rather for half-phrases... or even for cadences. Playing not "slowly".... but "in slow motion" (This topic was addressed in another post). Control the attacks and the "encounters" between left hand and right hand very much. Reach speed by playing almost at tempo with a stop on the accents of the beat units (in 2/4 on every quarter note and subsequently with a stop only on the first accent of the measure). We will feel where it is most appropriate to make the stop, when we sense a pleasant feeling of "completeness". Playing at the right tempo with a stop does not distort, does not alter the gestures and shows us, even before the final execution, what we must do and do well at speed. We can make the stop as long as we want, but when we restart, we must manage to reach the next accent. It's like having spaced rocks in the water, on which we must jump to reach the goal. After playing the fragment, we will analyze the errors... perhaps those errors that occur at speed.... and not in slow motion!!!

Tons of other things that even the wise Maestro will suggest.

Everything in Mozart is "pure" "essential" and his music is a bit scary, perhaps because, as here, musical ideas must emerge with maximum clarity and conviction.

I would like to say one more thing that is close to my heart. It is a widespread belief that Mozart's music should be performed with little expression and without pedal. I do not agree. We know from his letters how he preferred to play "with feeling" (naturally, an expression different from that of Romanticism). The pedal, when skillfully used, makes his sound more brilliant and legato. I recommend listening to the latest Brendel recordings published by Philips (some taken live)!!! Listen to the Rondo in A minor, so "expressive"!!!! Naturally, you will observe how"

even without being extremely rigorous with time, the listener should not notice this flexibility or at least find it acceptable. Never as in Mozart's music must the "management" of time be calm and without frantic rigor. Sometimes one "chases after the tempo"! That precious toy called a "Metronome" can be of great help, but it can become the worst enemy. The breaths, the phrasing, and the subsequent "recovery of the right tempo" cannot be achieved "to metronome time," but must be achieved with wisdom. Gradually, with growth and artistic maturation, the student will learn to manage their "internal meronomo". Never slow down "the notes," but rather slow down the "rhythm engine".....don't use the brake...but shift gears!!!!

Good Music

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Reply 27 by LaSingolarita

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I would like to add an opinion as a newcomer :-)

The best trill is the one that sounds best, and hand physiology does not allow for absolutist statements.. anyway, personally, the 2-3 trill allows me to exploit the key return if I keep my hand sufficiently relaxed, which is unthinkable with 1-3.. so, Thalberg's trill aside, which has never entirely convinced me especially due to the resolution if performed freely, in Mozart and in low-dynamic trills I prefer 2-3, in Bach 1-3.. and I reiterate that without a relaxed hand, the result will always be mediocre..

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Reply 28 by LaSingolarita

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I forgot one thing..

A system I invented, but which might already exist for the free trill, is to also practice by doing a measured trill with the right hand always at the same speed and varying the speed of the left hand, for example with an Alberti bass.. it seems like nonsense, but it has given me great benefits because even if in absolute terms the right hand remains constant, in relation to the left hand, the speed changes continuously..

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Reply 29 by Thesimon

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Honestly, when a trill occurs, I don't look at the fingering much, unless it's done with 45. Of course, in long trills, it is better to study the matter separately. I think I have already said this in a post. Usually, I study them backwards. I start from the end, from the last quarter where it resolves, and work my way back: last two quarters, last three quarters, and so on until reaching the complete trill.

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Reply 30 by pianoexpert

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A very complex discussion. Fingering deals with the evolution of piano schools (the serious ones), with the evolution of our instrument, with the conformation of our hand... with our ability to coordinate our fingers.

There is also the fact that even in Great pianists we can observe fingerings different from those they chose. I always wondered why Rubinstein, in trills on white keys, used 231323132313 instead of 23232323 or 13131313. It was simply more natural for him and he belonged to a school of the past. With modern instruments, one can dare bolder fingerings (provided they are well-regulated), just as one can perform repeated notes with the same finger. I like Frank's observation regarding antique instruments. By playing and listening to them, one can realize how to perform the "right" ornaments.

Apropos of Mozart, I recommend reading the book "Mozart Interpretation at the Piano" by Paul Badura-Skoda and his wife Eva. Zanibon Edition. There is a long chapter on ornaments, very valid and very logical, which can provide the pianist with a criterion for properly resolving the ornaments of the great Author.

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