As far as the pleasantness/stochastic connection is concerned, one could attempt an experiment: compose a piece that applies a stochastic principle, but restricts the field of available sounds (what Xenakis calls "R-class", if I remember correctly) to a diatonic scale, in a central register, with dynamics ranging from pp to mp, and with a very wide arrangement of rhythmic impulses (a very, very slow metronome, to be clear).
Probably something quite boring would result, certainly not exciting, but certainly not exasperating and unpleasant like Herma ... it could be interesting!
And getting to the heart of the topic...
Don't you find that "boring" and "interesting," from a musical standpoint and regarding the result, is a bit of a contradiction? I mean, for me, the experiment becomes interesting if the result is not boring.
Clearly, I am aware that boredom is certainly a very subjective parameter, but based on what should we establish if an experiment is interesting?
Just throwing it out there...
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Elfo
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Reply 2 by Elfo
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If the goal were truly to arouse boredom, the experiment would be interesting
If the goal were truly to arouse boredom, the experiment would be interesting
It might be a paradox regarding my opening question for the topic, but I will write it anyway: are we sure that knowing how to write a piece that arouses boredom is so obvious? How would you do it, Elfo?
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Elfo
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Reply 4 by Elfo
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...and well, you take a sound and you hold it for an hour
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Tiger
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Reply 5 by Tiger
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Elfo wrote:
...and well, you take a sound and you hold it for an hour
I would give this text a quick read... it's even 15% obvious
Interesting question and diabolical observations... what are we trying to prove? That the interesting can always exist or ... that it is impossible to be bored... or that boredom/interest is subjective... or that everything in the end is subjective, so ... anything goes?
Don't you find that "boring" and "interesting," from a musical and result-oriented point of view, is a bit of a contradiction? I mean, for me, the experiment becomes interesting if the result is not boring.
You are right, I wrote in a bit of a rushed manner. I meant to say: experimentation would be potentially interesting from the composer's point of view (because it could suggest some new ideas, it could open up some new paths), but the final result, in its "raw state," would probably be uninteresting from the listener's point of view: it is unlikely that a "blind experimentation" like the one I sketched would lead to a musically sensible result, unless it passes through the critical scrutiny of a solid composer (like Ligeti, for instance).
As for the purpose of writing an intentionally boring piece, I don't know what to say... let's just say it doesn't seem like an interesting idea to me! There are already far too many unintentionally boring pieces around... I don't see much sense in writing a deliberately boring piece!
If the goal were truly to arouse boredom, the experiment would be interesting
RedScharlach wrote:
As for the purpose of writing an intentionally boring piece, I don't know what to say ... let's just say it doesn't seem like an interesting idea to me!
Arousing boredom, I am not sure is the same thing as writing a boring piece; would you (RedScharlach) know how to do it?
RedScharlach wrote:
As for the purpose of writing an intentionally boring piece, I don't know what to say ... let's just say it doesn't seem like an interesting idea to me! There are already far too many unintentionally boring pieces around... I don't see much sense in writing a deliberately boring piece!
Which ones are the "unintentionally boring" ones? Tell the truth! What were you thinking?
Interesting question and diabolical observations... what are we trying to prove? That the interesting can always exist or ... that it is impossible to be bored... or that boredom/interest is subjective... or that everything in the end is subjective, so ... anything goes?
I think that in the end, even if from a different point of view, the topic heads in the direction opened by Carlos some time ago.
The crux of the matter is that, without a reference context of recognized value (By whom? The academic world?) ... it is extremely difficult to establish what has or does not have the requirements to pass from the state of experiment to the state of music of interest.
Let's say that if one stays within a codified field, it is very simple; outside of this, it becomes more difficult, but above all, everything becomes complicated in the face of the presence of conceptuality (in music) ... because for decades, the weight of the scale has moved further and further away from the ears.
I am reasonably certain that, apart from niches, those expressing themselves today can no longer ignore this, and even musicians of great depth like Pärt have noticed it; after periods of extremism, his style has shifted towards "other" frontiers ... which I believe will increasingly be embraced by composers.
Besides, there were "anomalies" in the 1900s... marginalized and distinct: see, for example, Britten and Messiaen.
Returning to the topic, if one puts the ear into the matter ... how would the story go? On what basis would this experiment be "evaluated" and elevated to music?
I'm not sure if causing boredom is the same thing as writing a boring piece, would you (RedScharlach) know how to do it?
mmm ... off the top of my head, nothing comes to mind ... I wouldn't know how to do it: currently I am too busy trying to figure out how to write an interesting piece!
Frank wrote:
What are the "unintentionally boring" ones? Tell the truth! What were you thinking?
No one in particular, I swear! I was simply referring to the fact that there is a lot of boring music out there...
currently I am too busy trying to figure out how to write an interesting piece!
... oh man, I thought you already wrote them
RedScharlach wrote:
I was simply referring to the fact that there is a lot of boring music out there...
Sure, based on your own ear's needs yes... but others?
In my opinion, it will loop infinitely on the initial question. Is there anyone who can establish a priori that a piece is boring? And based on which evaluation grids?
