In this country having a brain is a handicap

I was just talking about this yesterday with some friends. Public university is not subsidized solely by students but also by other families, perhaps even those without children, who pay taxes. In a certain sense, Italian families invest money in the sectors of culture, research, and university. In the end, when graduates leave universities instead of making good use of the well-spent money from citizens here in Italy, they rightfully go abroad. I strongly doubt that anyone would be satisfied with 600 euros a month. And I assure you, I have received job offers like that.

Let me tell you about one of my very recent job interview experiences: I walk in, we sit down, we talk about the work. When it comes to discussing the contract, it ends up being an internship contract... (I've been doing internships for 6 years, I think they might be enough, when do I start working?). From this point on, I am quoting the conversation verbatim:

Entrepreneur: - As far as the salary is concerned, it will be 600 euros per month -

I turn around and start looking at the windows.

Entrepreneur: - Is it hot in here? -

Me: - No, I was looking at the windows because if you don't stop fucking with me, I'll throw you out the window! -

Entrepreneur: - How dare you? Are you joking? -

Me: - No, I am not joking, and I would like to know how you dare to exploit people in this way, eating the whole cake and leaving the crumbs for others? How do you dare to exploit a moment of crisis to grab low-cost specialized labor, forcing fathers of families who have lost their jobs to accept such a pittance just to bring something home? How do you dare to insult my intelligence by proposing a job position whose monetary return wouldn't even be enough for me to buy gas? -

Entrepreneur: - That is not my problem; if the position doesn't suit you, you can always decline -

Me: - It seems to me that the answer to this question is obvious: never see you again, and I hope that one day you go hungry, at least to put yourself in a position to understand how a father of a family exploited by vile and arrogant entrepreneurs like you would feel, bye bye -

I stood up and left.

I believe this is also part of the market. These salaries exist because, unfortunately, there are people who are forced to accept them due to primary necessities. If no one accepted them, they would be forced to pay more. So let's avoid all discussions regarding other countries, Germany first and foremost, and let's find a way to destroy these realities that are not only disgusting on an economic level but, much more seriously, are a ruin of work ethics and the fundamental principles of every human being...

I would say you took a risk saying that phrase, even though I 100% agree with everything you said.

You are right, but I believe that in the end it is necessary to give certain people a shake-up, otherwise everyone here takes whatever liberties they want, caring nothing at all about others.

Politics is the first because it should set a good example, instead it does quite the opposite. They make pension reforms for the poor, but they themselves retire at 40 with a lifetime allowance of 4000 euros per month. When they go on television and are asked for explanations, they simply say that that's the law. Change it! I say... Laws are made for them.

Now there is no law that prohibits an entrepreneur from making an internship contract for someone who no longer needs to do an internship because they know the trade better than him, giving them 600 euros a month, but if no one rebels here nothing will ever change... So, the state does not protect us, the law does not protect us, and those who should enforce the law do not protect us... Therefore, we must resolve certain things on our own, otherwise we will never get out of this alive...

Simone, you didn't just do well, you did great! You have all my respect and approval, rather than taking risks.

I have also received job offers like this, it's a disgrace! Let them try to live on 600 euros a month. Far from a dignified life, you can't afford anything. I am very angry with the state and with these exploiters. They are always there discussing laws for their own interests; the poor become poorer and the rich become richer. They should lower taxes for companies and implement guaranteed minimum wages below which employers are subject to prosecution. 600 euros a month for 8 hours of work a day, if we consider 24 working days, is a little more than 3 euros per hour; they make 24 euros a day. The non-EU citizens arriving in Italy thanks to Mare Nostrum cost us 45 euros a day, exactly double, and they not only do nothing but complain, set fire to dormitories, want hotels, despise meals; all things that are paid for and given to them by Italians. There are Italians who are forced to go eat at Caritas because they have lost their jobs. They have been on waiting lists for years for public housing that will never be given to them because in this country foreigners are protected first, and then fellow citizens. This Italy is truly a disgrace. If Pertini saw all this, he would turn in his grave. The time has come for us to put an end to it.

Regarding the "brain drain" (what the English call brain drain) from Italy... read this article

http://www.sardiniapost.it/politica/elmas-incentivo-allemigrazione-regione-in-campo-attacchi-degli-indipendentisti/#?s=2&_suid=141579558804807820403852994275

Frank wrote:

A proposito della "fuga di cervelli" (quello che gli inglesi chiamano brain drain) dall'Italia... leggete questo articolo

 

 

http://www.sardiniapost.it/politica/elmas-incentivo-allemigrazione-regione-in-campo-attacchi-degli-indipendentisti/#?s=2&_suid=141579558804807820403852994275

... and one "understands": "but this is just one more opportunity that we want to give to those who want to work"

zenigata wrote:

Non-EU citizens arriving in Italy thanks to mare nostrum cost us 45 euros a day, exactly double, and they not only do nothing but complain, set fire to dormitories, want hotels, despise the meals; all things that are paid for and given to them for free by Italians. There are Italians who are forced to go eat at Caritas because they have lost their jobs. They have been on waiting lists for years for social housing that will never be given to them because in this country foreigners are protected first, and then fellow citizens. This Italy is truly a disgrace. If Pertini saw all this, he would turn in his grave. The time has come to put an end to it.

War between the poor... unfortunately always war between the poor!

No! There is no salvation! Centuries pass. History teaches but... there is no salvation!

All in all, I don't believe there is this war of the poor against the poor. If anything, I think there is a war (ideological for now) between poor fellow citizens and institutions. Personally, I feel pity for some of these people but at the same time anger, because I see that many are taking advantage of the situation. If I were to go abroad, I would do so on tiptoe. I cannot expect anything at all because in a country where I have never paid a lira in taxes, I cannot go there to dictate terms, demanding food and lodging wherever and however I want. I always remember that there are Italians sleeping under bridges because they lost their jobs and received no help from the state, which they had always subsidized with taxes as long as they had a job to pay them. A war refugee is a person fleeing their country because they risk dying, because they are starving. If they come to a country that is foreign to them, such as Italy, the only words that should come out of their mouth should be: "Thank you so much". Instead, they complain, and this makes me very angry. I would add that while once I could think that foreigners came here to Italy to work hard, today they come here only because for them this is a playground. The Chinese come, they don't pay taxes, they sell toxic products, earn Italian money and send it to China "since nothing happens to them anyway"; if an Italian doesn't pay taxes because they are in economic difficulty, they leave them on the ground and take away their home and every hope. I believe this is truly disgusting. Italy for Italians!! First, think of your own fellow citizens, those who pay for public services that do not exist, and if money must be invested in those in need, I prefer my money to go to Italians in need, not to Africans, not to Romanians, not to Chinese; if there is a way to help others as well, fine, but primarily, in Italy, Italians come first.

Simone, forgive me but I am a bit tired of fighting windmills and therefore I will limit myself to telling you this: regardless of who is right or wrong, History has taught us that there are epochal phenomena against which we can do nothing. Our generations are living through one of these: just as in 476 with the Barbarians, they are invading our territory and we can do nothing to counteract this phenomenon.

We can try to govern it as best as possible so that tomorrow, the mismanagement of everything does not lead to consequences far more serious than those currently existing.

I think that those who reason like you are wrong and create the preconditions for creating hatred that will spill over into future generations.

I hope I am wrong, but History teaches me this as well.

I often find myself listening to news that fills me with great sadness and melancholy, and I always think of the Dies Irae Lacrimosa from Verdi's Requiem Mass, not only because it is wonderfully beautiful, but because it manages to express that feeling of compassion for humanity (all included) that I have at this moment.

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First of all, I would like to understand if by talking about windmills you are referring to me, because if that were the case, I would find this quite offensive as it seems to immediately position your intervention as somehow superior to those of others, and this bothers me quite a bit... In any case, just as you are tired of fighting windmills, in the same way, perhaps even worse, I am tired of dealing with "fatalists" who are only capable of complaining about the situation they live in and pointing out the current state of the country that everyone knows, who weep for themselves and say "there is nothing that can be changed anyway" and therefore have never come to a sit-in, a demonstration, or whatever it may be. It is automatic that if everyone says "nothing can be done" while waiting for Divine Providence to intervene, things will never change, but I am the child of a generation (my grandparents and great-grandparents) who died for their country, one even decorated, who carried forward their own ideals and gave their lives to try to build a better future for future generations (including us) and I want to believe that tomorrow things will change thanks to the commitment of all citizens because even if in the current state of affairs the world is governed by 5 people who decide the fates of 7 billion people, just 1% of this population would be enough to kick out everyone who does not deserve to hold the positions they occupy (thieves and profiteers holding public office). Being fatalistic and talking about windmills not only insults me and my ideals, which I care little about, but above all insults those people who have donated their lives to future generations. My great-grandfather on my mother's side sweated through four shirts to feed the family just to avoid joining the Fascist party! So, I would ask you in the future to say your piece, but to respect the opinions and ideals of others which might be different from yours. If you want to live as a fatalist, you are free to do so; if you want to sit around and wait for better times, that is no problem, as mentioned above, but I hope you will avoid useless complaints about the current situation if you believe that fighting against injustice in one's own small way is equivalent to "arguing with windmills."

With friendship,

No Simone, the windmills I am referring to are my being always in an Obstinate and Contrary direction; I'm a bit tired and worn out from it! You have nothing to do with it and so I beg you not to feel offended, at least about that!

Anyway: Yes Simone, with friendship!

I say that if history teaches us that there are eras in which certain phenomena prevented anything from being done, probably there wouldn't have even been a history. History books would be flat and would only speak of the people who must submit to what the powerful impose upon them. History, on the other hand, teaches us that often the poor have rebelled against slavery, obtaining rights and independence. Wanting to give the idea that nothing can be done is, in my opinion, far more dangerous for future generations than instilling hatred. Hatred is something destined to calm down and disappear when rights are obtained, but throwing in the towel while waiting for the intervention of others could prolong the current situation indefinitely. Waiting for better times changes nothing. If a ball is stationary on a table and no external forces intervene, it will never move.

I didn't say that we shouldn't do anything: I said that we must try to govern it as best as we can so that one day, the mismanagement of everything leads to consequences far more serious than those currently existing. I think there is a big difference!

If today we are not capable of governing 'at best' this inevitable epochal phenomenon which, whether we like it or not, has its own reason for being and upon which, as the West, we have very grave responsibilities; if we are only capable of giving answers based on hatred and racism, we will only create the prerequisites for more hatred and violence that will inevitably ripple through future generations. That is it!

Refusing to acknowledge it, burying our heads in the sand or, even worse, activating guerrilla behaviors and hunting for Black people, non-EU citizens, 'the other' from us, will not serve—not only to save ourselves, but it will lead us into an endless abyss.

This is what we must understand, whether we like it or not, and this is what History teaches us; and if we commit the errors that were committed on other terrifying occasions, we will all lose. Everyone! Clear! However, with a terrible aggravating factor compared to the past: the Earth we live on has very serious problems, always caused by Us, and our survival is in serious danger, and while someone tries to make us see the moon, we continue to look at the finger. And the finger represents our selfish problems; whether it is more just to give a house to an Italian or to a Black person, or whoever they are.

Please, you are people of intelligence and culture... use that intelligence and that culture not only to play or compose!

danielescarpetti wrote:

there are epochal phenomena about which we can do nothing.

I think that everyone speaks Italian.

Then is the thing retracted? It doesn't seem so to me.

danielescarpetti wrote:

We can try to govern it as best as possible so that one day, the mismanagement of everything leads to consequences much more serious than those currently occurring.

You are saying that by treating it as best as possible, mismanagement will lead to more serious consequences. This is what I am reading. Perhaps a "not" is missing: "...that the mismanagement of everything does not lead..."

I think I am the last person on this earth to be a racist... My partner is Moldovan, I have some English, Slavic, Romanian, and German friends. The point is that I don't believe it is I who am wrong in observing, analyzing, and drawing conclusions. I did not want this situation, and in one of my previous posts where the concept of poor against poor continued to be insinuated, I also specified that I see the conflict more as poor against the caste that governs us.

Then there are other "behaviors" of the poor that I observe and judge based on my experience. Regardless of whether these are war refugees, if they were simply foreigners to whom the state provides: housing to sleep, food, phone credit, and a minimum amount of money to buy cigarettes or beers, I do not tolerate ignorance regardless of who the subject is. Coming here to Italy in a boat is, in small terms, equivalent to hosting someone in your own home. So, let's set aside cynicism for a moment: if a stranger were to force their way into your house... You wouldn't kick them out because you understand they are a person in need (and I am of the opinion that one day I too could find myself in the place of a person in need and would be pleased if others treated me as I would treat them), therefore: you give them a bed to sleep in, you give them lunch and dinner to feed themselves, you allow them to use the phone, and you even give them 5 euros a day (without this person having to do absolutely anything to earn all this attention). At the end of the day, after 10 days of living at your expense in your house: they burn down the room you gave them because it is too uncomfortable for them (but before that, they slept for 3 nights in a boat packed like Tetris with their other compatriots), they knock the plate of pasta you cooked onto the table because eating pasta every day isn't good enough for them (they want something else), and they protest against you publicly because according to them you are caring for them poorly and 5 euros a day is nothing. Question: is it racist to give them a kick in the ass and send them back to where they came from? I want to emphasize that in this example I haven't spoken of any race; if it had been an Italian, they would have received that same kick in the ass.

In light of these considerations, should I feel at fault for observing and evaluating what I see? I didn't choose any of this. I wouldn't even have chosen the euro; I remember it as if it were today, the officials from the Bank of Italy coming to my high school to convince us that the euro was the right choice, and I believe both the professors and the officials remember well my comments on the euro currency... I have never believed in a United Europe modeled after the United States of America for a simple reason related to different cultures being too far apart from one another and the excessive variety of languages. This is just a monetary-economic union that, therefore, decides the fate of nations not based on a sense of nationality but based on markets that decide who must prosper and who must perish.

And now I am supposed to be told that reasoning like mine is wrong because it instills hatred? Practically, at the end of the day, if things get sorted out with a people rebelling, will the fault also be mine? What kind of logic is that?

As a man of my time, where wars are no longer idealistic but economic, where wars are fought by pressing a button in an office, unlike many I no longer rely on historical facts which are now obsolete for our era; I rely on my civic sense and the education imparted to me from above, and I evaluate—I evaluate what the path to follow is, which is certainly not the one imposed on me by incompetent and irresponsible blowhards put there by God knows who, who take huge salaries without knowing how to do anything. This I evaluate. I evaluate that if you lead a country to ruin, you cannot retire at 40 with a 4000 euro pension and a severance package. A severance package for what??

These are people to be kicked out. Does that seem like a hateful attitude to you? It is! Without a shadow of a doubt, and I hope people wake up because one cannot go into the streets for a damn football team to argue about 11 imbeciles running after a ball, and instead show up as 10 people at a demonstration for the rights of Italians.
It's something to reflect on, not hatred! This is my country, the country I love, the country where world history was made, where I grew up and thrived; and seeing it reduced to nothing due to those who aren't even capable of tying their shoelaces is something that I simply cannot accept!

@Simone

What does it mean, historical facts that are obsolete?

Anyway, I came to Italy without demanding anything; I am in a country that hosts me, has given me work, has given me healthcare, and I must respect the institutions and the citizens. I do not like the behavior of these 'mare nostrum' people; they were saved from war, hunger, and death, and you should only say thank you to those who did it for you. Same thing for the gypsies.

While we shout "Italians First", the parasites continue blissfully feasting on our blood, reassured by the fact that they have pointed out an enemy to us ... and we believed them.
If they only stole half, there would be abundant funds to fight criminals, help the poor devils (Italians and foreigners) and improve services for everyone.

It seems to me that there are truly many problems, too many. In this post, the direction taken is that of 'mare nostrum' and I have read opinions that I share. In other countries that save your skin, you must go in a certain way; otherwise, I also hold the view that if you have to come here because you were starving only to cause trouble, I will send you back to where you came from. There is no doubt about this. However, I think that behind everything there are interests, a general 'every man for himself' mentality, otherwise these undocumented immigrants would still be dying in their own homes. It is certain that Europe must intervene as it should; it cannot leave everything to us while giving us pocket money. That politics is a mess is something I believe is clear to everyone, but here if nothing happens, nothing ever moves.

It is obvious that the problem comes from the top. In a country governed by people who respect themselves, if someone causes damage, they are caught and sent back home, and mind you, this happens in all countries in the world except Italy. Only in Rome's prisons are there 2000 foreigners...

Now the discussion about foreigners has opened and we are focusing on them, but I believe everyone knows well where the problem comes from.

Am I taking it out on migrants? No, on the state (deliberately with a lowercase 's') that does not send them back to where they come from. This is pure criminality. We already have our own criminals, we don't need any more.

Other examples...

e.t.c. etc. (Just follow the flow, another 1000 videos are coming out on YouTube)

What is there to defend in these behaviors? Whoever feels like defending this way of acting should not hesitate to do so!

Is it racist to say to send these people back home? I really don't think so. Returning to the topic, here is what Italy does... It invests money for the training of Italian professionals and gives them away abroad where they produce and contribute to increasing the gross domestic product of the countries they go to, in exchange for criminals who come here only with demands that, if not met, cause them to set reception centers ablaze. They demand freedom, as if anyone arriving in Italy without documents were free to go around doing whatever they want. They are given a bed to sleep in, a meal, money and phone cards, and in return, they set fire to the dormitories, demand meals from restaurants, and throw stones at public security.

Congratulations! Beautiful Italy, beautiful political choices! A bunch of assholes governing us...

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