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For some time now, I have been looking for the Italian translated text of Rachmaninov's Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom for mixed a cappella choir, op. 31, to include it on my website.
In Rome, the Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia performed it only once and in an incomplete manner.
The concert program, which I am authorized to use, contains a nice commentary but only provides the text for 9 out of 13 stanzas.
Does anyone know where I can find the complete text?
Member
I'll see what can be done, in the meantime you could take a look here at some links indicated here
http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/2010-librerie-on-line/
Member
Do you only need the translation or also the original?
Quoting some significant parts of the original text would facilitate the search
Member
Tenore wrote:I'll see what can be done; in the meantime, you could take a look at some of the links indicated here
I had already searched the recommended sites but it's not on the web. One would need to find either some concert program from a concert or a book to then photocopy in a library.
Member
CanCan wrote:Do you only need the translation or also the
original?Quoting some significant parts of the original text would facilitate the search
I need the translation. Putting the original text in Russian (assuming it can be found) would serve little purpose for the Italian visitors of the site.
Moderator
Terenzio wrote:i have a book to photocopy later in the library.
If you give me the precise references of a text that might contain it, I can look into it myself.
Moderator
cut to the chase, if you have access to a Grove, under the Rachmaninov entry there will be the list of works and any editions (or, in the "worst" case scenario, the places where to find unpublished scores).
Moderator
thallo wrote:cut to the chase, if you have access to a Grove, under the Rachmaninov entry there will be the list of works and any editions (or, in the "worst" case scenario, the places where to find unpublished scores).
You are saying that in the Grove there is text/translation/text association?
Member
Exceptional, I got lost in my own site! (there are about 1,500 pages)
The text of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom that I am looking for is not Rachmaninov's op. 31 but Tchaikovsky's op. 41.
If you look at the relevant page in the Listening Guides, you can see the missing numbers in the text:
http://www.flaminioonline.it/Guide/Cajkovskij/Cajkovskij-Crisostomo41.html
Member
Ehm Ehm, Terenzio
So, from your site I see that it is composed of 14 parts
Text: liturgical
Kyrie eleison
Gloria Patri
Venite adoremus
Alleluia
Gloria tibi
Cherubim hymn
Kyrie eleison
Credo
Preface and Sanctus
Last Supper hymn
Vere dignum
Pater noster
Communion
Postcommunion
Of which you already have the translation
No. 1
Lord, have mercy. Lord have mercy...
To You, Lord. Amen.
No. 2
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
now and forever and unto the ages. Amen.
O Only-begotten Son and Word of God, though being immortal,
you willed to take flesh from the Holy
Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary for our salvation; without changing you became
man and were crucified, O Christ God, trampling
death by death; You, who are one of the Persons of the
Holy Trinity, glorified together with the Father and the
Holy Spirit, save us...
No. 4
Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia...
No. 5
Glory to You, Lord, glory to You... Lord, have mercy...
No. 6
We who mystically represent the Cherubim and
sing the hymn "Trisagion" (Thrice Holy) to the life-giving Trinity, now lay aside every worldly care. Amen.
To receive the King of the universe, invisibly escorted
by the angelic hosts... Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.
No. 9
A sacrifice of peace, a sacrifice of praise...
It is with Your spirit... We have offered them to the Lord.
It is worthy and just to adore the Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit, consubstantial and invisible Trinity... Holy, holy,
holy is the Lord of hosts: heaven and earth
are full of His glory. Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest... Amen.
No. 10
To You we sing, to You we bless, to You we give thanks,
o Lord, and we pray to You, our God.
No. 11
It is truly right to glorify You, o Mother of God,
always blessed and all immaculate and Mother of our God.
You, more honorable than the Cherubim and without comparison more
glorious than the Seraphim, You who without shadow of corruption
bore the Word of God, You we magnify as true
Mother of God... Of all and of the whole world...
No. 14
Praise God in the heavens, praise Him in the highest places.
Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia.
(Translation by "Christian Russia")
What is missing?
Do you mean that there is also something from 15 onwards?
Moderator
Frank wrote:You are saying that in the Grove there is a text/translation/text association?
No, simply there will be indications to find the published part and, therefore, the original text. If there is no publication in Italian (and I imagine that, if it exists, it is published by Ricordi) then there is no "official" translation, and so the best thing to do is precisely to find the original Russian text and translate it specifically for this purpose. If something is found in digital format, one can try to translate it with an online translator "adjusting" everything afterwards, or "throwing it into Google" and hoping to find a translation in English.
Besides, since we are talking about liturgy, even if—I imagine—it is Orthodox, it is plausible that the texts are not original but liturgical. Being able to at least find the Russian translation of the title "Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom" could be the key to finding something online
Moderator
even better, I found some versions directly on IMSLP. Now I am checking them
Moderator
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/9/98/IMSLP191010-SIBLEY1802.19580.57ce-39087011262369score.pdf here is the solo choir part, IN ENGLISH and, I believe, in rhythmic translation, so quite free.
I am not quite sure if the Russian Orthodox liturgy is translated into the language of the country where it is practiced... that is, I don't know if Russian rite churches in Italy adopt a translated liturgy or one in original Russian. That being said, I also found this page online that seems to publish the entire Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom in Italian http://www.ortodossia-russa.net/testi/Liturgia/Liturgia.htm the bibliographic reference is at the bottom of the page: "Divina Liturgia Sancti Ioannis Chrysostomi in textu graeco primigenio emendatissimo et in textu italico", Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1967. I don't know if it is the corresponding one, but the term "divine liturgy" is only Orthodox...
Member
CanCan wrote:Ahem Ahem, Terenzio
So, from your site I see that it is composed of 14 parts
Text: liturgical
Kyrie eleison
Gloria Patri
Venite adoremus
Alleluia
Gloria tibi
Cherubim hymn
Kyrie eleison
Credo
Preface and Sanctus
Last Supper hymn
Vere dignum
Pater noster
Communio
Postcommunio
For which you already have the translation
No. 1
Lord, have mercy. Lord have mercy...
A to You, Lord. Amen.No. 2
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
now and forever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
O only-begotten Son and Word of God, though being immortal,
for our salvation You willed to take flesh from the Holy
Mother of God and ever-Virgin Mary; without changing Yourself You
became man and were crucified, O Christ God, trampling
death with death; You, who are one of the Persons of the
Holy Trinity, glorified together with the Father and the
Holy Spirit, save us...
No. 4
Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia...
No. 5
Glory to You, Lord, glory to You... Lord, have mercy...
No. 6
We who mystically represent the Cherubim and
to the life-giving Trinity sing the hymn "Thrice Holy,"
depose now every worldly concern. Amen.To receive the King of the universe invisibly escorted
by the angelic hosts... Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia.
No. 9
The mercy of peace, the sacrifice of praise...
It is with Your spirit... We have offered them to the Lord.
It is worthy and just to adore the Father, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit, consubstantial and invisible Trinity... Holy, holy,
holy is the Lord of hosts: heaven and earth
are full of His glory. Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest... Amen.
No. 10
To You we sing, to You we bless, to You we give thanks,
o Lord, and we pray to You, our God.
No. 11
It is truly right to glorify You, o Mother of God,
always blessed and all immaculate and Mother of our God.
You, more honorable than the Cherubim and incomparably more
glorious than the Seraphim, You who without shadow of corruption
bore the Word of God, You we magnify as true
Mother of God... Of all and of the whole world...
No. 14
Praise God in the heavens, praise Him in the highest places.
Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia.
(Translation by "Christian Russia")
What is missing?
Do you mean that there is also something from 15 onwards?
I am missing nos. 3, 7, 8, 12 and 13 which were not performed in the concert from which I drew the texts.
Member
thallo wrote:http://petrucci.mus....262369score.pdf here is the part for the solo choir, IN ENGLISH and, I believe, in rhythmic translation, so quite free.
I am not quite sure if the Russian Orthodox liturgy is translated into the language of the country where it is practiced... that is, I don't know if Russian rite churches in Italy adopt a translated liturgy or one in original Russian. That being said, I also found this page online that seems to publish the entire Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom in Italian http://www.ortodossi...ia/Liturgia.htm the bibliographic reference is at the bottom of the page: "Divina Liturgia Sancti Ioannis Chrysostomi in textu graeco primigenio emendatissimo et in textu italico", Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1967. I don't know if it is the corresponding one, but the diction "divina liturgia" is only Orthodox...
The Russian Orthodoxy website, if you look closely, provides the entire text of the celebrant but not that of the choir.
The Choirs sing the first antiphon, or the first psalm of the Typika... but it does not provide the text.
The "Petrucci" site gives us the complete text but in English. I will see if and how I can use it.
Evidently Tchaikovsky orchestrated all the Choir texts and not those of the Celebrant, which are spoken.
Thank you
