Morricone: What Do We Think?

rstrauss wrote:

Yes, it can be heard, but not because of the music, rather because of the difference that lies in the fact that usually the piece originally written is not put entirely into the film, but only the useful fragments.

I was at the Morricone concert in Udine in September and after seeing the films, I understood.

Perhaps I have been misunderstood. Let's say you have never seen Superman; you don't even know it exists. One evening thirty years ago, you found yourself with a few friends in an auditorium for a concert; the conductor is John Williams and you are hearing something like that.

At the end of the concert, would you truly be able to come up to me and say: "This is not good material for an auditorium intended solely for listening, this is film music, it must be accompanied by images"?

If you could manage it, you would have to explain to me what the reasoning would be.

If I had never seen Superman, to me this would be a wonderful triumphal march...

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Listening to it again after so much time, I'll tell you more... I don't think it was Superman that added value to this theme; in fact, perhaps if the film hadn't had a theme like this, it wouldn't be what it is today. It's a bit like saying... this isn't film music, it's perhaps Superman taking on the role of film for music.

What can I tell you... If I listen to this music without watching the film, it moves me; if I watch the film without this music, it tells me nothing.

TheSimon wrote:

Listening to it again after a long time, I'll tell you more... I don't think it was Superman that added value to this theme; in fact, perhaps if the film hadn't had a theme like this, it wouldn't be what it is today. It's a bit like saying... this isn't film music, it's perhaps Superman taking on the role of film for music.

What can I tell you... If I listen to this music without watching the film, it moves me; if I watch the film without this music, it tells me nothing.

i agree.

Listening to this music without knowing anything, one wouldn't realize that it is film music.

Another example is the suite from "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," also by Williams.

Everyone knows the very famous spaceship theme, but almost no one knows the rest, which is truly beautiful.

Listening to film music in a film, usually one doesn't "listen" to the music, but perceives it as part of something more complex—the film itself—in the same way one perceives, for example, the background of a scene, which focuses on the actors but is still present.

I think that many people today almost automatically claim that the music they make "is cinematic," for one particular reason: practically everyone refers to a cliché regarding the use of specific instruments and ensembles, such as French horn sections, choirs, and "they perform" in 99% of cases always the same things, "evil" choirs with staccato parts, horns performing typical parts considered "epic," and sound libraries have disproportionately increased the number of those who attempt this, leading (in my opinion) to a flattening of the offering; one only needs to hear a few demos of these libraries to see the situation clearly. Writing for a short, medium, or feature-length film is a completely different thing (sometimes I have thought about trying to do it with a film I've never seen, or even more difficult, with one I've already seen, so as to be conditioned by the soundtrack and attempt to do something different), starting from the images and almost as if starting from a text, and it is more difficult.

Then one thinks (I am speaking of amateurs, not professionals) always that (potential) film or visual music must at all costs smash it, be powerful, performed quickly, and be driving, when instead one should put something of oneself into it, but at the same time have the sensitivity to understand what the images (beyond one's own interpretation) want and must evoke. Regarding Morricone, I appreciate the piano piece from "Il deserto dei tartari"; he manages to give (at least to me) that sense of the indefinite, of regret for time now lost, a life lived in the conviction of something that perhaps can never be lived; then "La piovra," there are some interesting pieces. Regarding Zimmer, I have lately listened to some pieces from Inception; he works a lot with French horns. I recommend One Hour Photo (but it is not by Morricone nor Zimmer), the main piece is stupendous. As for Shore, excellent sonority in "The Cell," a "sick" piece at the beginning, and I like those kinds of things.

Piccinesco wrote:

I think that many people today almost automatically claim that the music they make "is cinematic," for one particular reason: practically everyone refers to a cliché regarding the use of specific instruments and ensembles, such as French horn sections, choirs, and they "perform" in 99% of cases always the same things, "evil" choirs with staccato parts, horns performing typical parts considered "epic," and sound libraries have disproportionately increased the number of those who attempt this, leading (in my opinion) to a flattening of the offering; one only needs to hear a few demos of these libraries to see the situation clearly. Writing for a short, medium, or feature film is a completely different thing (sometimes I've thought about trying to do it with a film I've never seen, or even more difficult, with one I have already seen, so as to be conditioned by the soundtrack and attempt to do something different), starting from the images is almost like starting from a text, and it is more difficult.

I agree both with you and with Strauss on practically everything you have said. However, I want to say one thing about what you wrote...

In films, I don't know if it really works this way, but my impression, what viewing and listening suggest to me at least, is that there are priorities to be respected between audio and video, like at road intersections. Sometimes the priority belongs to the music, and I want to give you an example that I think explains this exchange of priorities very well (to remain consistent with my previous post, I will stick to the theme of Superman).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVDD5cF1IX4

From 0:00 to 0:46 -> Music completely at the service of the images

From 0:47 to 1:05 -> The music is acting as the headlights at the intersection, it wants to pass

From 1:06 to 1:16 -> The images pull back to allow the music to take center stage, and this begins to accelerate to merge into the road

From 1:17 to 3:03 -> The music is the true protagonist; the flight would be nothing without it, it wouldn't evoke emotions. The video is edited in function of what is happening in the music.

At 2:08, look, good patriotic Americans, look at the dialogue between images and music; it seems as if the images say: "underscore this fragment of video" and the music creates this incision that underscores the importance of that moment, and there appears the Statue of Liberty, of great value in American symbology; again, the images are at the service of the music. It is a continuous conversation between music and images in this one-to-one correspondence.

It is truly a study carried out by the creators of the film—incredible, wonderful, of great professionalism in just 3 minutes of footage.

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I am reporting this one, which I like very much.

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TheSimon wrote:

I agree with both you and Strauss on practically everything you have said. However, I want to say one thing about what you wrote...

...From 1:17 to 3:03 -> The music is the true protagonist; the flight would be nothing without it, it wouldn't evoke emotions. The video is edited in function of what is happening in the music.

At 2:08, good patriotic Americans, look at the dialogue between images and music; it seems as if the images say: "underline this video fragment for me" and the music creates this incision that emphasizes the importance of that moment, and then the Statue of Liberty appears, of great value in American symbology; again, the images are at the service of the music. It is a continuous dialogue between music and images in this one-to-one correspondence.

It is truly a study carried out by the creators of the film, incredible, wonderful, of great professionalism in just 3 minutes of footage.

Editing work done properly; I really think that this moment in the preparation of a film is undoubtedly "key," because as everyone knows, it only takes a slight offset before or after between an image and the music to change the perception of the viewer, hence great post-production responsibility understood as the period after filming (although I think some shots are also edited work in progress, just as they are filmed, not in chronological order with respect to the progression of the film).

I understand what you mean; in effect, sometimes music is preparatory. If I may use an analogy, I would bring up delays, which require preparation, and in this regard, both images and music in films sometimes have similar roles.

camy86 wrote:

I am reporting this one, which I like very much.

It seems "alternative" to me as music, understood as film music of course, certainly less "impactful" and immediate than others, but it is appreciated precisely for this.

Here is One hour photo (for Gelo, I was "inspired by this piece" even though I wrote the string section part 10 years ago).

For me, the string part is wonderful; I must say it makes me feel bad because of how much of an effect it has on me, but it's like suffering, and I mean this seriously,

it's part of life, and these dramatic atmospheres affect me more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrfyzPuWdsE

Apropos of Morricone and La Piovra, listen at minute 28:28"; for me it is an interesting piece, the atmosphere is particular, driving; these in particular are the atmospheres that

suspend a certain fascination in me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kYnRgnrYuk&playnext=1&list=PL7158AA0D18CD7E65&feature=results_video

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I have just reported a composition competition where I will be part of the jury, what do you think about this aspect as well?

www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/625-concorsi-di-composizione

Morricone was also the president of the jury for a competition in Frosinone if I remember correctly, some years ago; it involved scoring a 5-minute video.

He is a well-known as well as competent figure, though I think he plays up his notoriety quite a bit in some cases.

Regarding the competition, I will be judged as a subversive towards the church and those who represent it, but for me, they are dedicating a bit too many things

to the Vatican and to the Pope; after all, he is an elderly man like any other, and the adjective "Holy Father" seems far too exaggerated to me. That being said, they could dedicate

something to God if they believe in Him, and leave alone those who think they represent Him on earth, because since He has never been seen and no one knows what He is like (if He even exists) and the scriptures condemn idolatry, these manifestations are the antithesis of the teachings they wish to impart.

I would hold a competition dedicated exclusively to people who were victims of mafia attacks, terrorism, or those who took action, in short, like the competition

for the Bologna massacre of August 2nd.

(this is not intended to be a polemic against the competition itself, but against the dedication; for me, they already have too much, enough with these gifts).