Music in Advertising

I agree with you. Besides, my generation was also a "victim" of Caroselli [commercials]. When they discovered at parties that I knew how to play the piano, some girl would ask me: "....uh, can you play Angelino Supertrim for me?" (imagine if I didn't play it for them!!!). It was Mozart's Turkish March, which in that era of "long-haired kids" was the most well-known classical piece.....Well...it's thanks to Calimero, the little black chick who, when washed with Supertrim, became white!!!!!! In that moment, where rock groups reigned, Calimero gave a hand to those of us who didn't play the guitar and wore our hair short 😆 I was also a bit indignant....but it amused me. Even today people talk about Supertrim, even if the detergent no longer exists. Many learned that that music belonged to Mozart...and maybe they became interested in his other music. Welcome to advertising that makes us listen to good music.....but you are right...one should cite the title and the author.

Hi Francesco, I think exactly like you, it is a shameful thing! But we need to analyze certain things carefully. Television is the ruin of all humanity. Music in advertising is the least of the damage, if I may express myself this way. Recognizing a piece of music by Beethoven in an advertisement—and I mean appreciating it even if one is not aware of the composer—is, in my opinion, not a bad thing; it is still publicity for classical music, but it would be interesting to implement your advice: title and author. The biggest problem is that television is a great invention of technology, but like all brilliant ideas, innovations can be used for good or for evil, and our television is certainly not being used for good. The myth that everything said on TV is gospel must be debunked. I haven't turned on the television for 7 years because I refuse to watch the televisual HORRORS that national networks continuously feed to people. Everything said on television is true regardless [of its accuracy], and that is the serious problem. With this system, the media have usurped the right to shape people's minds; we are returning to: "Look, a flying donkey!". Not everyone knows, for example, that during election periods, government leaders send a list of forbidden terms to national broadcasters—terms that cannot be pronounced on air. Television shows half-truths, as in the case of the L'Aquila earthquake, where the current government (and I don't mean this to imply belonging to one side or another, precisely because I have no political affiliations) was portrayed as a redeemer who essentially solved the situation, but they did not show that more than half of the inhabitants of L'Aquila are still homeless—the same people, or at least many of whom were driven from their homes despite having suffered no significant damage. They did not broadcast the telephone intercepts of two entrepreneurs who, after the L'Aquila earthquake, were simultaneously conversing with these terms: "I was laughing at 3 in the morning!". Television does not broadcast all the wickedness of the government and its ministers; it doesn't say that Hon. D'Alema, who had rented a 450-square-meter penthouse in Piazza della Repubblica in Rome, complete with antique furniture and tapestries that are priceless works of art, was paying only 600 euros a month!! I could continue until next year, but the substance is that the television system is completely corrupted by politics and the needs of politicians who have the power to control the masses; therefore, people, turn off the television and turn on your brains!!

Francesco, I see the matter, compared to Paolo and Simone—whose opinions I also share—on a social level. That is, many people, unfortunately or by chance, depending on various circumstances, almost do not feel the "spiritual" need to satiate themselves with Music. In the sense that they do not feel within themselves that sensitivity which instead we and many other people use to satiate ourselves with Music as a primary necessity of life, like eating, drinking, breathing, etc... because these "chosen ones" feel within themselves that this stimulus enriches life. Just as a glass of water quenches thirst or a delicacy delights the palate, so too Music satiates internally, and we "chosen ones" cannot do without it! It is a kind of input that triggers, unconsciously or consciously, in everyone, sooner or later, and binds us to this necessity daily. Instead, many other people, without making it a fault, do not have this input, or perhaps it hasn't triggered yet, or they settle for the bare minimum musically speaking, i.e., they satiate themselves with what is on TV, the Radio, their own tastes, etc... Therefore, I believe that this process of sensitization must begin first and foremost with us. Of course, the media influence and do not instruct in this sense, but it is a mistake to blame those who do not recognize a Mozart sonata, etc... or advertising which has only a profit motive and not one of individual acculturation, because they should not be distracted from the product; instead, it must be seen as an opportunity to trigger that input, then obviously their Musical sensitivity will orient itself more towards that direction. My point of view, happy to expand and correct it with you all. 😆

The point is that people are lazy: music, to be understood in all its forms and facets, requires mental effort. Unfortunately, the average individual fails and/or has no desire to grasp certain stimuli because they are not informed and not educated about it. Just think that in middle school they still teach the recorder: how can someone approach music with this old and boring approach? The problem lies in education and not in the use of advertisements for certain music, in my humble opinion. Using one piece of music or another just to capture a stimulus like looking at this or that product is the way the nature of most advertising is explained: fake, devoid of artistic sense and respect for a language that goes beyond communication.

P.S. A glaring example comes to mind; Allevi doing an advertisement for a well-known car brand: empty music for an even more absurd advertisement that conveys a pseudo-message of environmental respect. But what about the principle of conservation of energy: nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, unburned hydrocarbons depositing in the environment?

Mediocrity and banality to the nth power. What I perceive from advertising is a plastic essence of materialism sold with the aid of sex to capture as much money as possible.

camy86 wrote:

The point is that people are lazy: music, to be understood in all its forms and facets, requires mental effort. Unfortunately, the average individual fails and/or has no desire to grasp certain stimuli because they are not informed and not educated about it. Just think that the recorder is still taught in middle school: how can someone approach music with this old and boring approach? In my humble opinion, the problem lies in education and not in the use of advertisements for certain music.

Great! In my opinion, Andrea has really hit the mark. If I ever manage to enter a conservatory as a teacher, which will cost me another 2 years of study after my diploma, my goal will be precisely to respect the ministerial program but by setting different milestones and thus following alternative paths. I remember music lessons in middle school well. Recorder lessons... All wrong. We live in a society where what sells more than anything else are pop groups and IT. Why not exploit these media inputs to one's advantage? I also play with my father's group; it's certainly not classical music, but it is still a new experience. If I were a middle school music teacher, my first aim would be to let each student choose their own instrument instead of categorically imposing the recorder. Enough with this bull**t! I would then try to create a group where everyone has a very precise role. I would put music theory in the middle, as well as a bit of music informatics. I would teach how to use a sequencer, how to use a music production system, give some basics of acoustics, and talk about studio recording. That is how interest in music is created! Let's not forget that we are dealing with kids aged 11 to 13; they need to learn while having fun, and the teacher's skill lies precisely in creating this fun while teaching. In my opinion, this method has two advantages. The absolute first is bringing new generations closer to "cultured" music, not seen only as classical music—which is certainly the undisputed queen of music—but with this term I mean music in a professional context: from performance to production. The second is memorization. If learning happens through fun, the memorization of topics is much more deeply rooted in the head. In essence, my philosophy of teaching and learning is as follows: in everything that is studied, at university, at the conservatory, etc., there is a need to apply the topics in a real context that is fun. In the university field, I created this forum and various other sites/software. In the music field, I have made several recordings, composed pieces, and produced videos. As you can see, it's not necessary for different sectors of culture to follow two completely separate paths; it is always possible to find something that brings them together and makes them converge toward one another; in this way, theory coincides with practice, new things are learned, and a product is obtained which, once finished, gives us the satisfaction of being able to say, "I created this with my own strength." Everyone needs this, because in life, satisfaction often pays much more than money.... I've learned this the hard way.

Greetings to all

Exactly so, Simone! Even regarding the musical education taught in middle school, there is much to discuss... Andrea also anticipated the issue: the point is that people often don't want to concentrate while watching an advertisement to understand what music it is. They don't want to or, as Simone said, they are unable to, because they lack a musical education.

... Pianoscholar, perhaps what you observed is somewhat the same concept of this lack of musical education... looking at it on a social level, in fact, everyone hears music, but only others actually listen to it truly...

Well, let's wait for other opinions!

camy86 wrote:

The point is that people are lazy: music, to be understood in all its forms and facets, requires mental effort. Unfortunately, the average individual fails and/or has no desire to grasp certain stimuli because they are not informed and not educated about it. Just think that in middle school they still teach the recorder: how can someone approach music with this old and boring approach? The problem lies in education and not in the use of advertisements for certain music, in my humble opinion. Using one music or another just to capture a stimulus such as looking at this or that product is the way to explain the nature of most advertising: fake, devoid of artistic sense and respect towards a language that goes beyond communication.

P.s. A glaring example comes to mind; Allevi who did advertising for a well-known car brand: empty music for an even more absurd advertisement that conveys a pseudo-message of environmental respect. But what about the principle of conservation of energy: nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, unburned hydrocarbons depositing in the environment?

Mediocrity and banality to the nth power. What I perceive from advertising is a plastic essence of materialism sold with the aid of sex to capture as much money as possible.

Camy, I agree in part; generalizing by saying "people are lazy" does not take into account various external and internal circumstances of a person! It is very true that 99.8% of us have a society, seen in all its aspects—both cultural, information, etc.—that does not stimulate or orient towards that "mental effort," but I maintain that the input must then start from us. Valid and innovative teaching methods, as Simon says, are welcome for the training of new generations, especially today when we are in the Total-Web era, which in the future will influence even more and, in my opinion, will also replace current "obsolete" means of communication like TV, radio, etc. It is obvious that advertising is absolutely not a means of education/instruction; we cannot expect gold from those who offer us carrots. I believe Francesco's aspiration to see music credits in an advertisement will never happen, because it must not distract from the product; every interference with the advertising message must be reduced to a minimum. The use of music in this sector serves only to focus on that product, period. That is why they associate certain music chosen at the boardroom table by companies with the product, to create a sort of memory in the "subconscious" for the product and not for the music: music is just a very powerful medium. Responsibility starts with families first and from educational bodies which must already at a young age, for example from elementary school, lay foundations that orient and train towards that form of art; then, as the cultured Francesco will feel music or listen to music always depends on that spring that clicks inside you and various other factors.

PianoScholar wrote:

Camy, I partially agree; generalizing by saying "people are lazy" does not take into account various external and internal circumstances of a person! It is very true that 99.8% of us live in a society—seen in all its aspects, whether cultural, information-based, etc.—that does not stimulate or orient towards that "mental effort," but I maintain that the input must then come from us. Valid and innovative teaching methods, as Simon says, are very welcome for the training of new generations, especially today when we are in the era of the Total-Web, which in the future will influence even more and, in my opinion, will also replace current "obsolete" means of communication like TV, radio, etc. It is obvious that advertising is absolutely not a means of education/instruction; we cannot expect gold from those who offer us carrots. Regarding Francesco's aspiration to see music credits in an advertisement, I believe that will never happen because it must not distract from the product; every interference with the advertising message must be reduced to a minimum. The use of music in this sector serves only to focus on that product, period. This is why companies associate specifically chosen music with a product, to create a sort of memory of the product rather than the music in the "subconscious": music is merely a very powerful medium. Responsibility starts first with families and then with educational institutions which must, even at a young age—for example, from elementary school—lay foundations that orient and train towards that form of art; then, as Francesco so eloquently put it, if he feels the music or listens to the music depends always on that internal spark and various other factors.

I fully agree with you Pianoscholar... except on one thing: I am not quite sure that an advertisement stating the name of the music used would distract from the product itself... on the contrary, imagine if suddenly an advertiser decided to do so: when we are at the supermarket, most people buy what the advertisement offers. Well, I believe that precisely because it would be unusual for an advertisement to show the title and author of the track, people would remember it...

In any case, I believe that education, as you say, must "start from the principle"... that is, from school, from the family, from education (which in Italy DOES NOT WORK FOR THE SIMPLEST THINGS, LET ALONE IF IT COMMITS ITSELF IN THE MUSICAL FIELD!!!!...)...

FrancescoDiParigi wrote:

I fully agree with you Pianoscholar... except on one thing: I am not quite sure that an advertisement stating the name of the music used distracts from the product itself... in fact, imagine if suddenly an advertiser decided to do so: when we are at the supermarket, most people buy what the advertisement suggests. Well, I believe that precisely because it would be unusual for an advertisement to show the title and author of the track, people would remember it...

In any case, I believe that education, as you say, must "start from the principle"... that is, from school, from the family, from instruction (which in Italy DOES NOT WORK FOR THE SIMPLEST THINGS, LET ALONE IF IT COMMITS ITSELF TO THE MUSICAL FIELD!!!!...)...

Dear Francesco,

first of all, I compliment you on the sharpness of your observations and the brilliant way in which you manage to express your opinions!

However, I do not fully agree with you regarding this last response to Pianoscholar's intervention, which, instead, I found extremely lucid and impeccable in its considerations. He is right when he says that, unfortunately, the music used in advertisements is only a means to help the video-listener's memory without distracting their attention toward objects other than the "Product" intended to be advertised. The fact that an advertisement showing the title and author of the background musical track, representing an unusual occurrence, would remain imprinted in the listener's memory—I find this a bit naive (don't take it personally!) because, if it became a rule, it would lose by definition this character of extraordinariness and would distract, over time, the video-listener from the primary purpose of advertisements, which unfortunately remains to instill in the user the validity of the advertised product.

I greet you and, anyway, I compliment you again for the vivacity of your interests, especially in relation to your very young age! This does you honor and always continue like this!!!

I do not always participate in the discussions that arise in the forum because I am a simple lover of music in general, even though for many years I dedicated myself to the study of operatic singing, which I only recently resumed.

See you soon!!!

Honestly, I cannot understand what the problem is! Or maybe there is one but... it would probably be better not to ask!

Let me explain myself better.

Advertisements (even when they appear stupid or incomprehensible) are the result of great work by professionals whose task is to present

a certain product to the public in the most "appetizing" way possible. The end... justifies the means!

What are the means? All of them.

It has become customary, by now, to rail against the use of each of these means... precisely because they are exploited by that much-hated advertising.

Whether it be women, children, animals, or works of art does not matter. The important thing is the attempt to delegitimize "unworthy advertising" through the use

of something that belongs to someone else.

In our case, we are faced with the attempt to protect "our" beloved classical music.

Aside from the fact that like water, like air, like the sun, classical music belongs to no one... (or rather it belongs to everyone), I don't understand

what is wrong with ignorance! It is not the advertisers' fault if people do not know how to recognize what they are listening to! It is not even possible to provide

captions for every element that makes up the commercial, and it is not up to advertising to provide culture.

Moreover, there is a significant difference between not knowing and having the arrogance to contradict a professor... but that is another story.

If I am a curious person, I will have no trouble tracking down a piece of music, or a painting, or anything else that impressed me in an advertisement.

Today, the Internet makes this very easy.

It is true, to conclude, that schools (and we must limit ourselves to compulsory education) do not provide sufficient musical culture... but I would be satisfied

if they did so in at least one of the subjects taught!!!

Classical music is vast, and therefore I wouldn't be surprised if even the most diligent student, the most passionate professor, or the best state school

missed that, in reality, that lovely "piece" that accompanied the Mulino Bianco commercials is Bach! (Chorale "Jesus bleibet meine Freude" from Cantata BWV 147) 😆

Agreed... Perhaps it is a bit naive to think that if the advertiser stated the title and author of the piece people would remember it, however I also find it a bit bizarre that culture must be reduced like this. Certainly I cannot (and we cannot) force advertisers not to use music, because it is not theirs, but neither is it ours... And we also cannot, as Michele says, expect that, in today's Italian school, among the many subjects, Musical Education works well.

Of course it is not the advertisers' fault if people do not know what they are listening to, but, if we look at it from this perspective, it is not even the people's fault, right? It's like telling a child who counts up to 50 to imagine an infinitely higher number...

It is also true that the advertiser cannot distract themselves and "get lost" in the music they have used, however what I heard and cited in previous messages continues to bother me.

I will give you a brief reasoning on the situation:

- People see the advertisement;

- Most people DO NOT RECOGNIZE THE MUSIC of the advertisement and categorize it as "Old Romagna Music", "Mulino Bianco Music"...

- People buy the advertised product;

- People continue to not know what they are listening to;

- We are here talking about advertisers and their use of music;

- Meanwhile, the advertiser gets rich.

And besides, it also bothers me that in this vicious cycle, who profits? The people? No. Music? Not a chance. Culture? We can forget about it. The advertiser! The one who NOT ONLY OUTRAGES ME AND THOSE WHO THINK LIKE ME, BUT IN THE MEANTIME GETS RICH, PEDDLES TO SOCIETY THE MESSAGES THEY WANT, AND BENEFITS FROM ALL THIS!!

I know I am not exactly on the side of the majority, and I know that what I say will never be listened to by an advertiser, and I also know that Culture can NEVER be such on television, with very few exceptions.

In short, I know that what I am asserting is impossible to sustain.

I look forward to other considerations.

PS thanks for the interest with which you are participating...

The discussion is very interesting because it associates a common interest or passion and exploits it in other fields.

However, I believe that contrary to what you say, we should expect music education to work well in schools because that should be the teacher's job. The bigger problem is that nowadays most middle school teachers show up to school only to collect their paycheck at the end of the month. I also realize they find themselves facing a class that is often composed more of an unspecified number of "bullies" than actual kids, and they avoid effort, but let's not forget that they are still very young people. In my opinion, with very young people, to spark interest, one would only need to pull the right levers. But teachers lack the imagination to engage in ambitious projects with their students precisely because their primary project is making it to the 27th of the month. An advertiser does their job, the job of an advertiser, and so as Michele says, they use everything they deem finely catchy and visually attractive to ensure that the advertised product gains the attention of as wide an audience as possible. Why get angry with advertisers who are doing their job? In my opinion, one should be angry with the teachers who don't! However, it must also be observed that often a recent graduate approaching teaching begins their profession with the best intentions, which decay the moment the class I described previously rejects all the teacher's efforts. But good teachers are those who do not give up. I remember a practical example of what I said from when I attended middle school. I had two music teachers. The first forced us to buy a flute chosen by him, perhaps because he would take a percentage... That statement alone says a lot. Aside from the first two lessons on the duration and position of notes in the treble clef, for the rest of the lessons we played the flute. For every lesson, we were assigned a small sheet of music to study at home with the flute... Faced with this deadly boredom, almost no one ever did their music "homework." This is not teaching music, guys!! In the following years, a teacher came who won us over with her vitality. She organized an end-of-year concert in which each of us was to perform by tackling the study of a "difficult" piece on any instrument. Some formed groups, some girls tried their hand at choreographing ballets. In short, interest began to move. Like all beautiful things, the following year they replaced the new teacher with the old one, so game over.

All this is to demonstrate that the almost complete absence of musical culture in young people is the corollary of bad, if not non-existent, teaching by professors, with all the related problems (lack of interest in the subject, difficult kids, etc., etc.). We cannot therefore blame advertisers if they use Bach, Mendelssohn, or Beethoven in commercials. Raising awareness toward music is something that must be done when one is young, but music hour (which is already little in itself) with the teachers I have had the chance to see is recreation hour!

Just to attack advertisers again 😆: probably, using classical music in commercials ... also saves money on SIAE! Better to use music that has entered the public domain! Don't you think??? 🙂😉 ;)

Absolutely yes! To make an engraving, it is the same thing that happens with computers. Some time ago, netbook computers were sold with a version of Linux to lower the cost of the PC. Linux is free, Windows is not! In this way, for 100 euros, one could buy a PC; lower spending equates to being more competitive and therefore reaching an ever-increasing mass of buyers. Therefore, in the design phase of a product, one always tries to achieve the maximum results with the lowest possible expense, somewhat like the philosophy of maximum yield with minimum effort. This science is called Operations Research. It is applied mathematics to the corporate sector; I studied it at university.

In short, Francesco has raised a highly significant issue, even if, at his very young age, he has proposed a response that is not a solution.

In fact, a solution resolves a problem; but the problem consists not so much in the ignorance of the composition and the author, as in the use made - by everyone - of an artistic expression and, generally, of culture (commodification).

Allow me first of all to disagree with some of the things that have been said: and I will also explain why.

Francesco asks to cite the work and the author and - rightly so - Maricallas reminds us that if we always cite, the thing goes unnoticed. Dear Francesco, if citations were enough to build culture, then we would have an abundance of learned people! (The "Barilla" music is a citation!)

Simone takes it out on teachers, but they are not responsible for the acculturation of young people, which is and remains the responsibility of parents.

In fact, parents use operators to perform this task, but using someone who operates in your place (in my world) does not transfer responsibility. In fact, delegation aims to create efficiency/effectiveness and not to shift the responsibility for the result, even if many tend to forget this.

If a parent sends no messages, except those related to commodification, what can we expect from young people? Let us not forget that a young person is formed by lived experiences and, therefore, if the father spreads ignorance, why should the son exhibit culture?

Let's move now to the advertiser: I had a twin (tragically dead) who worked as an advertiser in Milan. He did his job with passion and professionalism, but he was well aware of the perverse mechanisms of the tool he held in his hands.

Much less - I believe, no, I am certain - were the recipients of his campaigns, given that "restrained" type advertisements were less successful than "pushy" type ones. And I am still waiting to see crowds of people give up watching some shitty two-thousandth episode of any soap opera (or Sunday Sports, you decide, since they show tits and asses there too), to read not even a book, but a damn newspaper!

Much more shrewd - instead - were those who commissioned the advertising work from him, who saw it as an investment like many others, distinguished moreover - if he told them well - by a profitability unthinkable with "classic" industrial investment. And so on with all the classic tricks invented over time by the clever bastards of half the world (I lived in Naples for many years and they don't need to teach us anything!): from distracting you with false morality (like: buy Profumo Sensation product and you will be better than others), to enchanting you with the hot girl/guy of the moment (Blasi/Totti?, etc.), to telling you that you are about to make a real deal (3x2, fabulous discount?, etc.) and so on. In short, a shitty mess that couldn't be more shitty.

Sincerely, I wouldn't know which of the three deserves my contempt more, among the entrepreneur, the advertiser, and the client (or perhaps even me?).

In reality, each of us is, in part, the architect of our own destiny and each is therefore responsible for this trend.

The capitalist, who knows the laws of the market by heart (to simplify):

1) many buy, many sell = maximum justice and fair price;

2) many buy, few sell = minimum justice and seller's arbitrariness;

3) few buy, many sell = minimum justice and buyer's arbitrariness

looks for solutions 2 or 3 and therefore spends his time trying to make his competitors fail/buy and making the counterparties become brutish/imbecilic in the so-called market.

The advertiser is a tool of the former (everyone who counts has their skilled people!) and, in return, tries to get rich doing a job he likes; however, it may be true that when he painted beautiful pictures and wanted to sell them to eat honestly, no one bought them, so it's also the fault of the third! (every lowlife has their persecutors!).

The buyer, who does not want to learn the laws of the market, is happy to be told what to do and does not even ask for a moment if the person telling him what to do possesses the necessary authority and independence (the entrepreneur does not, nor does advertising, which answers to the entrepreneur), since the only one who would have the necessary authority would be himself, but then he would have to work his ass off to understand a lot of things! Better to let Blasi/Totti do it, even if it costs more (otherwise who pays the Blasi/Tottis?) and if one remains in one's own crass ignorance (meanwhile, using the saved time to try to get rich at the expense of other unfortunate souls and change groups). But what can we do if man is a substantially stupid/ignorant/presumptuous/selfish animal?

I understand Francesco's indignation, who like me loves music, but think about the havoc that occurs with technology, where everyone knows the ultimate product of electronic technology and nobody knows who discovered electrical or electronic phenomena. Mozart-Mulino Bianco/Kenwood Grater is not much different from Schroedinger-iPad/Nokia. And let's not talk about what happens with the arts, which suffer even more than science, if possible.

In reality, we are witnessing a strange process in which - on one hand - a growing number of people increase their knowledge and wealth and - simultaneously - an ever-decreasing number (in percentage) of people take possession of increasingly larger slices of information and rights, to dominate others. In this process, the keywords are: economies of scale and market, but, in reality, the former produces concentration (ahi, ahi, ahi! rules 2 and 3!) and the latter is mentioned inappropriately, because the product market is as fictitious as the "shadows in the cave".

What to do, then? How can I tell my neighbor that we should change course?

It's a bit like shouting orders into the fury of the storm and the whistling of the winds to a crew that is deaf, and even rebellious at that!

Well, one solution is to remain calm, indicate maneuvers with gestures (and not with shouts!), try to correct the rudder for the helmsman, and in any case, remember that we went to a swimming lesson and, if the rocks get too close, jump into the sea and leave the inept to their fate.

And now, let me return to the study of Number 2 (Nochecita) from Seis Danzas Espanolas by Isaac Albeniz (I swear!!! I am not saving myself from the rocks, but only indicating a maneuver with gestures to a beautiful crew!).

Ciao!

Dear Gennarino, regarding the professors, I don't quite agree with you. If by teaching you are referring to university professors, I agree with you, but speaking of middle schools, things aren't quite like that based on my experience. Parents do have the task of educating their children and "acculturating" them as much as possible, but let's not forget that not all parents, especially from my generation, had the luck to be able to continue their studies due to economic reasons. Thus, parents must educate and give all possibilities (according to their own possibilities, excuse the pun) to their children, but the least interested in teaching what constitutes culture are the school professors. School was born precisely with this purpose, first in Greece and then in Rome. I consider myself a lucky person because my parents, although they aren't swimming in gold, are doing well nonetheless, were able to allow me to undertake various courses of study that I was passionate about, and they spent a fortune! My parents have a very high level of culture in many fields; my father is not a classical music expert, nor is my mother, but having bought the piano when I was little pushed me to ask him to send me for lessons... And here we reconnect to teaching.

Referring to middle schools of the past does not hold in today's society; therefore, if you appeal to this discussion by referring to your memories, I am sure that your argument immediately falls apart in our present. In the past generation (according to my father's and mother's stories), there was respect for the professor, something that no longer exists today; so I realize that teachers face various difficulties in ensuring that the subject they explain sparks interest in young people. However, it is a completely different thing to enter a classroom just to show presence and wait for the bell, or to teach by just using your mouth and telling little stories that, as told, spark no one's interest. What I think is that to interest someone who is not at all struck by the subject being discussed, one must use a bit of imagination and try to make it fun. I have always tried to learn while having fun; what you study must be put into practice immediately, otherwise it remains mere theory that will be washed away by time. My point regarding music professors in state schools is precisely this: how can we expect young people to be interested in studying an instrument (the flute) that is imposed upon them? How can a young person be interested in music if at home they are continuously bombarded by House and commercial music on television, and at school, DURING MUSIC HOUR, they never listen to a piece of classical music? How can they be interested in high culture if it isn't even presented to them at school during that miserable weekly lesson hour? How can they love an instrument if the only one they will ever know is this damn 10-euro recorder? How will they bond with classmates through music if group work, mini-bands, etc., are not formed? All these wonderful situations must necessarily be created in a school environment, because school should provide all the tools so that a young person can choose their own path. The same possibilities are not guaranteed within a hypothetical family where both parents only finished fifth grade and where a salary of 1000 euros a month must cover everything!

Regarding television, you are right. Nowadays people's minds are diverted or rather "SHAPED" by television. That is why I consider myself lucky to have understood this thing a long time ago and I haven't watched TV for about 7-8 years now. How many times has it happened to you to listen to people making an assertion and, after various doubts from the interlocutors, hear them reply: "Yes, that's exactly right, I heard it on television"? This phrase hides within itself a very worrying message, namely that everything said on television corresponds to unassailable truth. The message is worrying because the minds that believe that what is said on TV is right regardless are diverted, and therefore steerable by the television medium. In my opinion, there is also a bit of hypnosis in television. If you detach yourself from television and reason with your own head about things, all the answers appear simpler. Look at what happened regarding the referendum on nuclear power plants; if the Fukushima nuclear disaster hadn't occurred, I am almost convinced that they would have reopened in Italy too with a little television propaganda. Not to mention the message of a poor fool, fucking sold out in favor of nuclear power plants, whose name I don't remember but whom I saw on YouTube, who claimed on television that the Chernobyl disaster caused only 10 deaths!!! (I was small, but I remember that my mother, here in Italy, gave me powdered milk because the milk from the plant could be contaminated! Deformed children, average increase in thyroid tumors even in Italy of 200%, but let's not get into political discussions that could offend others' sensibilities. The fact remains, today's TV with all its advertising is trash TV, born, grown, and fed to earn a place of power and control over people's psychology, which uses breasts and butts to gain market share and attract an ever-wider audience to whom hypnotic content is then pushed, prompting them to believe that everything said in that heap of junk is correct! Reflect, people, reflect....

Great intervention, Renzi!!! I agree. The Mass Media are no longer interested in "sincere forms of art" and the references that the Masses receive and to which they "still" cling are increasingly futile and misleading. How should one act? How should one play? How should one paint? In short, how can Art communicate, through what language? It would be enough, at school, to speak about and clarify these types of concepts to provide some tools for orientation in the difficult world of Expression and Communication. Everything is "muddled": music in advertising, diction in false television acting (the natural kind!!!!), the pictorial "stroke"... etc. In short, all forms of multimedia use of Art are welcome, but they must be accompanied by knowledge of the basics and fundamentals. Here, the School is responsible, as it does not possess teachers who are capable and willing to face "THE ESSENTIAL," with sure and solid basic messages (which perhaps they sometimes lack). I would give little responsibility to Families. Those who are lucky enough to be born in a house of scientists or musicians might be lucky or advantaged (unless the presence of an eminent Fatherhood or Motherhood generates competition). But even just the careful evaluation of a child's qualities can suggest and favor encouragement and illuminate the right path to follow.

Unfortunately, in the decline of values, everything expires and many forms of Art are not even known. People no longer talk about Theater or Painting, and on SKY you have to buy the only Classical Music channel separately. Everything is within our reach and yet it seems so far away!!!!

We always say the same things... perhaps I am noticing this... but.... perhaps... facing the problem, which is now Jurassic, scares us.

Then, in an ideal model, welcome free Music schools, free conferences and videos from great scientists and philosophers, guided tours by great scholars of figurative Art. We must return to the Golden Age, when Man possessed all this and "could hear the grass growing."

(Excuse my occasional fairy-tale "flights of fancy")

No, excuse me my dearest friends, you are not wrong with your observations! And perhaps I am not explaining myself well!

This is not about having rich or cultured parents, but it is about being ignorant parents (in reality, ignorant citizens)!

But what are we saying?

That these hordes of ignorant kids roaming around are all products of the school? (As if they left home in the morning being good and the school spoiled them in a few hours!)

That now the school is bad and once it was good? (In my day, school worked a little, little, little, little, little better, and kids left home with less money and more interests, children of present and "cultured" families, even if "less educated"! My father wanted me to know, not that I should appear to know!)

Forgive me for insisting, but the statements you make do not seem to me in agreement with the facts we observe.

School, like every other human manifestation, is a product of its times, meaning the dominant values of the men living in a certain era.

It's not that God produces all young people today as imbeciles and idle! It's not that God generates all teachers today as unlovely and foolish! It's not that God generates all parents today as irresponsible!

I am only saying that many subjects of this society abdicate, generally for futile reasons (almost always to have a little more merchandise), their own responsibilities and in doing so they favor the process of expropriation carried out against them by those pursuing dominance. Therefore, my criticism of parents is a symbolic call to the responsibilities of adults towards younger generations ("no one is born knowing" and "he who frequents a cripple learns to limp" is said in Naples).

Regarding the recorder, don't blame me, but you can make music and pleasure with any tube, just as you can get annoyed by even the best Steinway. The problem is not the instrument, but how it is used. If I use a flute to say that I am making music, it is like learning multiplication tables to say that I am doing mathematics. But even using a Steinway to say that I am making music is like learning multiplication tables to say that I am doing mathematics. Not by chance, Simone alludes to a different approach to making music at school (and I allude to a different approach to building culture at home). I therefore agree that teaching must have the ability to interest and evoke the student's curiosity to obtain the best results; it is no coincidence that the best courses (not only in music!) are often those where the student cooperates with others toward a result or those where they translate freely chosen research activities into concrete results (Music: finding an author and interpreting them; Science: finding a law and performing an experiment to prove it, etc.)

Regarding the observation on competence or parental wealth, keep in mind that it is not at all necessary to "have a degree" or "be wealthy" to "know" or "be responsible." In fact, responsibility does not mean at all "knowing how to do," but rather "knowing how to check results" and, as has always been the case, it doesn't seem to me that to know how to check one must know how to do. Otherwise, an Agnelli should know how to assemble an engine or a tire (it seems to me they have enormous competence only in the field of counting money!). Besides, if we associated responsibility with education/wealth, we would be doing a favor to those pursuing the appropriation of information and the increase of their own wealth to convince us to let them run the show!

That school is also a fundamental point of the problem, I believe as well, since it is one of the places where the growing youth is shaped (but let's not forget the Media: radio, television, Internet, etc.).

But, I repeat, if we give up being citizens because we choose to be only customers, let's not complain later that we have shitty merchandise instead of cultural and economic exchanges!

Bye and see you soon

@ All

And what if, even just to interrupt this harrowing discussion (but feel free to answer me, if you see fit!) and to pamper Francesco, each of us tried to mention a product and create a presentation sheet for it with music of our choice?

I don't know, for example:

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Dead FIAT DUNA, damn what bad luck!

On March 21, 2004, the last DUNA passed away, in the silence of grieving customers, a reckless protagonist of the modern image of beauty and grace.

Silently it left on its square wheels, just as it had entered.

Nothing suggested such an imminent end, even though for some time it had confided to its dearest friends that it no longer remembered where it was produced or where it had ever been sold.

We will miss its breakdowns when we were in the greatest hurry, the noisy scraping of the reverse gear, the discreet leaking of heating oil onto the road surface and, in a word, its authentic qualities as an excellent FIAT!

All of us, unsuspecting customers who purchased it, after having appreciated its discreet presence by our side over the years, will now learn to love its noisy absence from our streets.

Thanks are given and we ask you not to send flowers, but to direct the money to charitable works (e.g.: purchase a New Punto)

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Fallopian Tubes - White Duna

Edvard Grieg - Anitra's Dance

Open content (youtube)

Open content (youtube)