Orchestration Manuals

Adler's study of orchestration

micamahler wrote:

Adler's study of orchestration

si, this one I cited among the well-known ones. and I don't love it to madness.

do you know of others?

I am reporting this discussion

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1579-adler/

I wouldn't know anything else in Italian

Even if it's not "liked" ... this is the top in Italian

http://www.lafeltrinelli.it/products/9788870637021/Lo_studio_dell%27orchestrazione/Adler_Samuel.html

Precisely the Adler

... of anything else useful in Italian nothing comes to mind, perhaps something specific for wind instruments. Unfortunately Piston has not been translated...

scelsi wrote:

si, questo appunto l'ho citato tra i conosciuti. e non lo amo alla follia.

ne sai di altri?

Scusami, avevo letto di sfuggita e non me n'ero accorto.

Perchè non ti piace l'Adler?

micamahler wrote:

Scusami, avevo letto di sfuggita e non me n'ero accorto.

Perchè non ti piace l'Adler?

because in the description of individual instruments it is less complete than others in English.

and regarding orchestration, I don't find it particularly consistent from a historical point of view (whereas I do like the Leibowitz from this point of view).

there is no Piston in Italian ???!!!

I suggest the "Treatise on Orchestration" by Alessandro Cusatelli, I haven't read it yet but I have been assured that it is excellent.

I am instead reading his "Treatise on Instrumentation" and I like it very much !

the cusatelli is interesting... I had never heard of it.

i would also like to see the piston...

AleGozzo wrote:

is there no Piston in Italian ???!!!

When the topic of translating it came up, Adler arrived... the "project" was set aside. At least that's how I remember it.

AleGozzo wrote:

Alessandro Cusatelli

I don't know him

scelsi wrote:

i would also like to see the piston...

Maybe Frank has something in PDF... actually, he always has more than "something" ...

Frank, do you have anything or more in PDF?

If not useful, interesting

http://www.academia.edu/1483675/Texture_e_orchestrazione_nel_concerto_per_violino_di_Alban_Berg

Fabio De Sanctis De Benedictis

Texture and orchestration in Alban Berg's Violin Concerto

(originally published in Tetraktys, Year I, no. 0, July 1997)

With this analysis, we intend to propose a model of study on orchestration jointly with musical texture; such a model is not intended as an absolute, but we believe it has its own operational validity, also in light of the fact that, at least in Italian, there are rare, if not absent, treatises on orchestration that, besides studying the performance technique of each individual instrument and/or instrumental blending, address the study of the relationships between musical structure and orchestration. A happy exception in this sense is the orchestration treatise by W. Piston

1

, unfortunately not yet translated into Italian, which, after considering individual instruments, examines orchestration in different examples of texture: orchestral unison, melody and accompaniment, secondary melody, multi-part writing, contrapuntal structure, chords, complex structures. In this analysis, we have sought to go further, examining the relationships between texture and orchestration not in single and brief examples, but within a sufficiently large and formally structured piece, specifically the first part of the first movement of Alban Berg's Violin Concerto, from measure 1 to measure 103. Thus, the timbral/instrumental links and recurrences at multiple levels will become evident from one episode to the next, or between analogous but temporally distant episodes. The reader can therefore follow the timbral path that informs the piece, according to the logic highlighted in the analysis. We strongly recommend reading while following along on the score, so that the exemplified timbral relationships become even more evident. In every analysis, the initial problem of segmenting the musical text always arises, which is resolved through:
1. observation of agogic trends: often a ritardando or an accelerando, or more generically a change in metronomic tempo, manifest the passage from one formal episode to another;
2. divisions explicitly indicated by the author through the use of double bars or changes in meter;
3. presence of the same or similar thematic material.
We therefore obtain the following scheme:

For Adler, just go to google books

http://books.google....aliano?&f=false

...I don't know the piston, I've never looked at it

As I was explaining in the topic linked by Destroyed, from my point of view, a manual provides added value if it offers an additional perspective on the pedagogical level.

Given that no book can replace direct contact with instrumentalists to truly know instruments well—a means through which pages and pages of books can be replaced in just a few minutes... it is always good to compare multiple texts to best understand, at least on paper, the various possibilities offered by the instruments.

I find Adler more complex than deficient; for knowledge of instruments, I think Piston: Orchestration is very useful... but it is insufficient.

One can do direct in-depth studies on families of instruments or single instruments; see Facchin for percussion (previews available on Google Books) or books like "Extended Techniques for the horn" for the horn, etc.

However, a composer needs to understand how to manage these potentials, and an excellent text is Kent Wheeler Kennan, which is specifically designed to develop this ability. It practically takes for granted that you already know the instruments and focuses on textures—something that is always neglected; it starts from examples and proposes possible orchestrations, all balanced and functional in both pp and ff.

To enrich the discussion, you will have appreciated Leibowitz, which you sent to Gozzo in PDF format at the time. It is practical and very interesting due to the commentary and the ultimate proof with original works (among them significant fragments... where the orchestration of the 'Frank' in question will surely be different from that of the 'Genius' in question).

But not because only one version exists or because one hasn't reached it, but because among the various possibilities that might come to mind (even the most original ones), you then discover that you have "more" to learn.

It is interesting to understand what drove, for example, Beethoven to use solution X rather than Y, etc.

Coming to the question of the topic, namely manuals in Italian. I would look for a text as an alternative to these only if it provided different points of view on the matter; it is better to replace Mortari with Piston; Leibowitz is already in Italian; I don't think Kent Wheeler Kennan has ever been translated. I am not familiar with Cusatelli, so I ask AleGozzo to post at least the index... from this, many things can be understood...

If it were a duplicate of the other three in terms of pedagogical approach, why should I buy it? The only answer that comes to mind is for a strict linguistic problem, regarding translation... otherwise...? ...

If it were an in-depth study from a historical perspective, perhaps there would be other examples, so it might be worth it... Ale...?

Clearly, I have the PDFs of the three manuals I mentioned, so:

Piston's Orchestration

Kent Wheeler Kennan

Leibowitz

If you need anything, PM me with your email address

I don't know Piston.

I like Leibowitz very much for his historical approach.
I don't know Kennan.

I do have a certain "Alfred Blatter" in English, though! In the description of the instruments, I find it very complete and at the same time easy to consult and schematic. Honestly, more so than Adler...

Then, as far as the aspect of actual orchestration is concerned, I find them all rather inconsistent, Leibowitz excepted (who anyway doesn't seem to me to have the ambition of great completeness... but still...), precisely due to the fact that there is a lack of clear historical awareness. A bit like what happens in certain harmony manuals that explain an "abstract" harmony... that one isn't quite sure which era it might belong to... none, actually, it's a kind of condensed summary of different eras. But in my opinion, this creates confusion for the reader...

Frank, I'll send you a PM!

This is in Italian, perhaps not perfectly translated, but it touches on interesting themes

https://www.webdepot...neArtistica.pdf

Alan Belkin, Composer

Artistic Orchestration

scelsi wrote:

i have a certain "alfred blatter" in English though! in the instrument descriptions I find it very complete and at the same time easy

...is there something online?

Ludovica wrote:

...is there something online?

it is this:

http://www.amazon.com/Instrumentation-Orchestration-Alfred-Blatter/dp/0534251870