Piano Workshop 2013

Downloaded, I am doing the harmonic analysis

What do you say RStrauss,

Measure 1 I

Measure 2 I

Measure 3 II

Measure 4 VI

Measure 5 I

In reality, I am not convinced at all, especially since m seems strange in II before the IV...help me...

Measure 1: F6 9 or D-7 #11

Measure 2: D-7 11 or enharmonically F-6

Measure 3: G-67

Measure 4: Db

Measure 5: F6 9

I like degrees so :

Bar. 1 : II° on a hypothetical dominant pedal

Bar. 2 : I° 6^ - II° 4^

Bar. 3 : I° 6^ - I° 2^etc.

Bar. 4 : II° - V°

Bar. 5 : Flattened VI°.

Bar. 6 : I° 6^ - II° 4^

So I had understood something about the degrees, too bad that the harmonization is a bit advanced for me... I didn't even understand what you mean by like "II° 4" or "I° 2 etc"

Zaccaria wrote:

So, I had understood something about the degrees, it's a pity that the harmonization is a bit advanced for me... I didn't even understand what you mean by like "II° 4^" or "I° 2^etc"

se the chord on the I° degree is fa-la-do, adding sol# creates an augmented 2nd interval with the root of the chord.

It's a bit of an outdated definition, but it gets the idea across.

But isn't G# also an Ab... so I feel like playing an F-

Talentuoso wrote:

But isn't G# also an Ab... so for me it feels like an F-

if it were an F-, there would be the prerequisite to go into the key of C major since it would be a minor fourth degree of C, given that there is the D, a second degree of C with a flattened 5th.

the there is no change of key, so the G# is correct.

...but I absolutely did not want to refer to a discussion of "right" or "wrong", the issue is that one needs to reflect on it... and at a perceptual level, hearing only "fa sol# do" ... I hear fa-

That's all, clearly once placed within the chord progression the color results differently

Talentuoso wrote:

...but I absolutely did not want to refer to a discussion of "right" or "wrong", the point is that one needs to reflect on it... and at a perceptual level, hearing only "fa sol# do" ... I hear fa-

That's all, clearly once placed within the chord progression the color results differently

there is no problem ... if you perceive fa- it stands that for you the sol# is not correct ... but it is a matter of perception ...

this is very interesting ... at a perceptual level I would never dream of hearing an F minor, while you do and no one would prevent you during the development stage from treating it as an Fm ... with all the consequences that follow ... however.

I have read your analyses, the thing that convinces me least is the number of harmonies per bar. If the pedal is held, it will be a bit difficult to distinguish 2; at most, thanks to the sustain pedal, one per bar will be formed.

try playing it ...

...played, do you hear a II V on beat 4?

I hear a G-7 11 13 or a strange superposition of two chords: G7 (-3) and C7. Strange because in the first chord the third is missing, and usually the fifth is sacrificed or one settles for a SUS. It is also true that the Bb arrives in the second chord, so it is plausible to hypothesize that the harmony is unique... precisely due to the effect of the pedal, and we are talking about a G minor enriched with seventh, eleventh, and thirteenth.

Let's pretend there is no pedal, how can you say that the first chord is a II?...the third is missing, it could even be a dominant seventh. If you say II, it's because you are adding the Bb which, however, arrives in the hypothetical second chord.

Eagle wrote:

... played, on beat 4 do you hear a II V?

i hear a G-7 11 13 or a strange superposition of two chords: G7 (-3) and C7. Strange because in the first chord the third is missing and usually the fifth is sacrificed or otherwise given way to a SUS. It is also true that the Bb arrives in the second chord, so it is plausible to hypothesize that the harmony is unique... precisely due to the effect of the pedal, and we are talking about a G minor enriched with seventh, eleventh, and thirteenth.

the third was deliberately omitted so as not to assert the G- with certainty... it can be considered as G- or it can also be considered all one C chord which is sensed in beats 1 and 2 but is only confirmed in beats 3 and 4 of the measure.

Eagle wrote:

Let's pretend there is no pedal, how can you say that the first chord is a II?... the third is missing, it could even be a dominant seventh. If you say II, it's because you add the Bb which, however, arrives in the hypothetical second chord.

a beat 1 remove the low C (which would be a pedal) and you are left with: the first notes are D-G-Bb-G-F-D ... since there are 2 Gs with Bb and D, I consider it a G- chord ... here too it can be seen as a Bb chord, but the difference is subtle ... in any case, both II° and IV° can resolve to I°, so the effect works upon listening.

If the low C had been an 1/8 note and immediately after there had been D-G-Bb (all eighth notes), then you would have considered it a G- chord ... or ... a long C for 2/4 and all the other notes in the last 2 beats: it would still have been G-...

the disadvantage of these 2 solutions: the first would have been too frantic, starting immediately with a string of eighth notes; the second would have been boring with a long C and then all the others together...

the proposed solution, instead, has a calm beginning that does not create frenzy and remains quite articulated without being boring.

exclulding the pedal, one could consider the other 6 notes as a single long upbeat (levare).

rstrauss wrote:

the third was deliberately omitted so as not to assert with certainty the G... it can be considered as G- or it can also be considered as an entire C chord that is sensed in beats 1 and 2 but which is only confirmed in beats 3 and 4 of the measure.

Exactly what I am saying, a single harmony

rstrauss wrote:

so the effect when listening works.

As already stated, I was discussing the analysis and not its functioning

I am thinking of participating, unfortunately I will not meet the deadline and perhaps it is time to review the calendar... given everyone's commitments... it seems to me that participation in the workshops is loosening up a bit.

I think I will arrive at the end of July, I have thought about the theme and I won't voice my opinion so as not to influence those who might be interested in participating

Maybe I will make a calendar proposal... let me know.

I had announced a reduction in my presence. Anyway, I have made the variations for guitar, but I still have to transcribe them for orchestra. I too will be quite late with deliveries. Let's just say things have become difficult

... I'll give it some thought, but I'll probably do something a bit crazy, the need to deviate from the subject is winning out

as a good amateur I am tinkering with mine, it will take a little longer but I should deliver on time