Harmony and counterpoint

Progressions

13 replies 3,215 views

Started by

Fox

Member

Member

Opening post by Fox

Posts
170
City
Italia

Hello everyone

I am studying harmony but I have many doubts and many gaps; furthermore, the Walter Piston manual that I am following is complicated for me.

Can I ask if there is anyone able to explain to me what the I IV V I sequence is in harmony?

I know that I is the first degree of the major scale, just as IV is the fourth and V the fifth, always obviously of the major scale.

Here are my questions:

Why does this progression exist?

What determines it?

Why does music move in that direction?

How did they establish this sequence?

Thank you all

Member

Reply 2 by AbateFaria

Posts
640
City
-

Schoenberg explains it well in the preface to his harmony manual:

I Rest

IV surge towards tension

V tension

I Rest

Therefore tension towards rest... music (especially tonal music) moves on these tracks, namely a play between tension and relaxation

In any case, it is not a progression; eventually, a progression would be II V I IV VII III; in C major considering only the bass note Re Sol Do Fa...

Member

Reply 3 by Natan

Posts
239
Fox wrote:

Why does the music move in that direction? How is it that they established this sequence?

Only a small part of music moves in this direction, as the Abbot says, tonal music.

The I IV V I syntax, however, is very ancient, dating back to the 1600s; subsequently and in the Baroque period, the I II V I was already (ab)used.

The sequence is not established; the cornerstones of tonal music are the opposition of tonic (I) to dominant (V) and vice versa....in between there are all the nuances that even led to the collapse of tonality (late 1800s).

Today, very expanded tonal attitudes are used; tonality in a strict sense tends to move within the circle of fifths without modulating to distant keys, and one of the simplest ways to explore them is through progression (e.g., by descending or ascending fifths). As specified by the Abbot, I IV V I is NOT a progression

Member

Reply 5 by OscarP

Posts
119
City
Non lo dico

Harmony is made up of harmonic sequences, among which are progressions that can be harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic-melodic. When no specifics are given, a rhythmic-melodic progression is intended. Essentially, the latter occurs when a succession of chords and melodies reproduces uniformly, whether ascending or descending, across different degrees.

Furthermore, progressions can be: Fundamental or Derived / Tonal or Modulating. A progression is:
-Fundamental: when it is harmonized with chords in root position;
-Derived: when one of the initial chords is in an inversion;
-Tonal: if it remains in the same key throughout its duration;
-Modulating: when it passes through different keys.
(there is also semi-modulating. Tonal at the beginning and modulating at the end)

Member

Reply 7 by Fox

Posts
170
City
Italia

Thank you very much to everyone for the answers.

If I understood correctly, Abate says that it is not a progression and Natan speaks of syntax, the I - IV - V syntax "belonging" to tonal music.

So the I degree (which belongs to the tonic group)
the IV (subdominant group)
V (dominant group)
and finally I again
if I haven't understood incorrectly, it is just a harmonic sequence, right?

Member

Reply 8 by Eagle

Posts
264
Fox wrote:

if I haven't understood correctly, it is just a harmonic sequence, right?

Yes, it is a harmonic succession.

The fact is that syntaxes vary from era to era; the Baroque period is full of VI II V; after the fifth you can go to the I but also to the sixth, creating a deceptive cadence, such as II V VI

It is not excluded that one could do I IV II V

You can also integrate other passages like VII V I

I IV I is another syntax

But also II V IV

You can alter some degrees using bII or #IV

As already explained by others, I IV V I is one of the first syntaxes... then everything evolved by delaying the cadence to the I, even denying the tonic until the end of the piece.

Member

Reply 9 by cromatismo

Posts
79

Regarding the division you foresee, De la Motte might be useful to you (see his harmony manual) according to which:

Tonic area: I or VI

Subdominant area: IV or II

Dominant area: VII or V

The problem with this approach is the classification of the III; it seems to me that Frank approached it in a slightly different way but succeeded in classifying this chord better.

Member

Reply 12 by Fox

Posts
170
City
Italia

Thank you!!

I believe that De la Motte calls Area what Piston calls Group

tonic group

subdominant group

dominant group

so the tonic group includes the I and VI chords of the scale

The subdominant group includes the II and the IV

The dominant group includes the V and the VII

Can I take the degrees belonging to each group and create other sequences, obviously respecting the order of tonic, subdominant, and dominant?

for example:

I - IV - VII - I

IV - II - V - IV

I - II - VII - I

VI - IV - V - VI

etc

can I use different combinations in this way?

Member

Reply 13 by AbateFaria

Posts
640
City
-

> can I use different combinations this way?

Of course, but some combinations are more effective than others, so it depends on the context of the piece. If you are in a truly conclusive section, VII V I is better than VII I, which works better in transitional or more open sections.

The balance of all cadences and the tonal paths you manage to draw in a piece determine its effectiveness and quality.

Log in to participate