Recording In "Live" Input

TheSimon wrote:

The zoom h4n has two microphones for x-y stereo recording.

So I just need to buy that thing and that's it, and position it as best as possible during the concert....right?

Hi Jack. Exactly.

If you clearly want to increase performance, you can connect external microphones with hot rods to the device yourself.

But, between us, even like this, the setup is excellent for making a good CD.

You will surely get a, let's say, "dignified" recording; don't expect Pollini's records... For those, you need a lot of other stuff and thousands of euros worth of equipment. At least 12,000 euros just for microphones, plus the rest of the audio chain, and finally, a whole lot of ear in the mixing phase.

I forgot to add (obviously) the adjective 'amateur' at the end of the last sentence

It's not that with 250 euros we are competing with Deutsche Grammophon.

But anyway, you can make some nice little homemade things.

The ZOOM H4R model is a step above the Jammin Hr5.

But in my opinion, not so superior as to justify a 150 euro difference (I'm speaking as a consumer).

If you can find a used one, why not?

I got the H4R

Advice on positioning the rig in case of recording an upright piano? (I mean without the aid of external miking)

I speak from my experience, and I look forward to hearing the opinions of other users.

When I record with an upright, I OPEN it (possibly even partially) and position the microphone on a tripod, below the stool, near the soundboard (to enhance the bass). However, if you don't like this sound OR if your pedals are noisy, you can easily place it near the piano opening, on the upper side. Check VERY carefully that it doesn't saturate, even with heavy keystrokes (treble and bass) + sustain pedal.

The technician who did my teacher's recordings, on the other hand, used 2 microphones, positioning one below and one above.

P.S. Great purchase!!!!

Foster, mine has 2 directional microphones at 90 and 120 degrees... they are attached to the body of the "recorder" and, since I will not be using any other microphones (external to the gadget), in this configuration I would like to understand how to proceed

90° is XY technique with overlapping capsules. 120° is ORTF technique... One needs to see how it renders the spatiality of the sound. With ORTF the sound is more open, but in both cases you need to adjust the PAN. Left mic all the way to the left and right mic all the way to the right. In any case, in my experience, I have always seen classical pianos recorded using AB technique outside the piano at a distance of at least 2 meters (it depends a lot on the room acoustics). If the room is very reverberant you can go a bit closer, if it is less reverberant you can go further away... Obviously with that gadget it is not possible to use the AB technique. I would use XY at 90° which allows you to move a bit further from the piano without losing too much detail. With ORTF if you move too far away you lose focus. In combination with the AB technique, one could use a wide-capsule microphone that picks up the lows on the tail of the piano very low down, so as to have the soundboard wood transversally acting as a high-frequency trap; in short, you acoustically simulate a low-pass filter. However, you then have to deal with phase delays. After recording, you go into a DAW, one channel strip for each microphone, and realign the phases to make them all constructive. Finally, you check everything with a phase correlator. I still maintain the idea that external microphones, even if not extremely expensive, are better than those gadgets, especially for the piano, and even more so if used for the classical style. Never forget the importance of preamps and AD converters, which are the true bottleneck of the sound.

Thanks TheSimon, I was also doing some thinking regarding a chamber orchestra (3 maximum 3 or 4 instrumentalists) with and without fortepiano... and something "unconventional" at the theater.

Are there certain heights/levels to respect... apart from the distance from the instrument?

It depends first and foremost on the sound you are looking for in relation to the type of music you want to record. For example, for a Jazz quartet, I won't want the same sound as a Baroque quartet. Based on what you want to record, there are various techniques more or less suited to the circumstances. There are heights and distances from instruments that are standards; then, depending also on the RT60 level of the environment, these are modified to correct any potential issues. The problems that can occur when moving microphones from their standard distances are always related to phase. In the case of a quartet, we could opt to mic each individual instrument (in my degree thesis, I am writing a chapter dedicated specifically to miking techniques and positioning for various instruments), or paradoxically record using the Blumlein technique. Chesky Records uses mainly Blumlein and binaural (indicated for headphone listening). The results are extraordinary, but it is very difficult to implement and also comes at the expense of the musicians, who must play practically frozen without being able to move much. In short, everything depends on the sound you want and, within certain limits, with the proper precautions, you can explore new paths, provided they are motivated by practical sense; just to say that you cannot place microphones randomly just because we like the sound upon first listen... You must like the sound, but you must still avoid all problems related to phase and the resonance frequencies of the environment. For example, I would never dream of putting a microphone in a corner, where low-frequency waves cluster, if what I want to do is a clean recording (by clean, one means as similar as possible to the sound of the instrument that I hear acoustically). Perhaps in some musical styles, there might instead be a need for that sound loaded with low frequencies, which is wrong in terms of weight distribution across the frequency range but which, in that particular context, might make sense...

Simone, why don't you make a video on miking techniques for various instruments in different musical styles? It would be interesting; at least I would be very interested. Every time I try to record something, when I mix everything together later, the result is just terrible. Could it be the fault of the microphone placement?

To make a video like this, I would have to go to the studio of a dear friend of mine in Rome who records orchestras, but there is a small problem. Once the microphones are positioned, the orchestra arrives and small adjustments are made to the mics. They start recording, often in a rush; once the recording is finished, the conductor goes into the control room where he listens to a rough mix, then they hit the road and everyone leaves. In short, I cannot stop the musicians to make a video of how the microphones are positioned. I could do it for the piano at the next concert if there is enough time when I arrive, showing what the positioning standards are, but it's useless if the mixing phase isn't also shown afterwards. The point is this... In the mixing phase, if you don't have good monitoring, the video is useless because probably whoever watches the video with a home hi-fi system won't even realize what I am doing. So, if evaluating only the positioning can be useful, it can be done, but that is only 10% of what needs to be done to achieve good sound.

Even seeing the microphone placements inside the piano could be a good starting point. If there is the possibility, I would be interested.

We will see, weather permitting, if it will be possible to do so.

This would be a very interesting thing for me too.

So, since there are already a couple of requests here on the forum, I will try to organize myself to make this video.

Thank you !!