Sonata Op. 27 n° 2 - L.V. Beethoven

Bravo. In my opinion, it requires a bit of maturation, which happens not only by studying the necessary and correct movements to perform this sonata more effectively (I am referring especially to the 3rd movement), but also by moving forward with your studies and tackling superior technical solutions. Later on, when you return to studying this sonata, many solutions will be seen from a different perspective. For now, given your level of technical-musical development, it is a good performance and you should be satisfied with this achievement. Your Teacher will have already suggested passages to review in light of this important experience. The instrument does not help either. It seems rather out of tune, poorly intonated, and I think it is not well regulated, but nevertheless, the intentions come through well and some interpretative decisions are good. The sonata, a staple for many students, is not easy at all!!!! Some Great pianists find themselves somewhat in difficulty, to the point of significantly slowing down the tempos (third movement). Listen to the Great Kempff, who nonetheless made these sonatas an important historical-interpretative reference document. You already choose a "bold" tempo and manage to sustain it well until the end. Well done. It is no small feat. I see that you prefer attacks from above. There are pros and cons. Certainly, the gravity of the arm's fall increases strength and saves energy, but it is more dangerous, especially when attacking on the 5th finger as at the beginning of the arpeggios before the finale. Anyway, compliments and ad Majora.

pianoexpert wrote:

Bravo. In my opinion, it takes a bit of maturation, and this happens not only by studying the necessary and correct movements to perform this sonata more effectively (I am referring especially to the 3rd movement), but also by moving forward with your studies and tackling superior technical solutions. Later on, when you return to studying this sonata, many solutions will be seen from a different perspective. For now, given your level of technical-musical development, it is a good performance and you should be satisfied with this achievement. Your Maestro will have already suggested the passages to review in light of this important experience. The instrument doesn't help either. It seems rather out of tune, poorly intonated, and I think it isn't well regulated, but nevertheless, the intentions come through well and some interpretative decisions are good. This sonata, a staple for many students, is not easy at all!!!! Some Great pianists find themselves somewhat in difficulty, even to the point of significantly slowing down the tempos (third movement). Listen to the Great Kempff, who nonetheless made these sonatas an important historical-interpretative reference document. You already choose a "bold" tempo and manage to sustain it well until the end. Well done. It is no small feat. I see that you prefer attacks from above. There are pros and cons. Certainly, the gravity of the arm's fall increases strength and saves energy, but it is more dangerous, especially when attacking on the 5th finger as at the beginning of the arpeggios before the finale. Anyway, compliments and ad Majora.

Thank you so much! Yes, the piano was quite out of tune and had a mechanism that I think needed a bit of regulation (in fact, the tuner came a few days later). My teacher only gave me some technical advice to improve articulation in certain points; for the rest, he preferred to let me handle it, and I must say I am truly satisfied. Perhaps in a few years I will perform the same sonata again with a bit more maturity. Thank you very much for the advice and for everything!

I am not adding anything to Pianoexpert's excellent intervention, but regarding this

Lowseling wrote:

i would like advice especially to improve my interpretation, also because this is one of the sonatas I care about most

some analytical material never hurts

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/642-beethoven-sonata-op-27-n-2/

Hi Lowseling!

How talented! Do you already have a website/YouTube channel?

Which piano were you on? Yamaha C1/G1?

Eagle wrote:

I am not adding anything to Pianoexpert's excellent contribution, but regarding this

a bit of analytical material never hurts

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/642-beethoven-sonata-op-27-n-2/

Thank you very much, I will give it a good look

foster12 wrote:

Hi Lowseling!

How talented! Do you already have a website/YouTube channel?

Which piano were you on? C1/G1 Yamaha?

Hi, thanks! I have a YouTube channel; currently, I will only put the performances I like most on it, then in the future I intend to do a series where, besides playing, I might also explain my interpretation (as for my own website, I'll think about it later, when I have the appropriate knowledge to complete the melodies I have written)

As far as the piano is concerned, honestly I don't know the model, I haven't had the chance to check. It has good key response, but I think the action was a bit out of phase!

You are very gifted Lowseling, sense of rhythm, cleanliness, musicality. As Pianoexpert says everything can be improved, but you already have several achievements.

Marta23 wrote:

You are very gifted Lowseling, sense of rhythm, cleanliness, musicality. As Pianoexpert says everything can be improved, but you already have several achievements.

Many thanks

I share the opinions already expressed; it seems to me that the third movement is the one that is technically most immature, in the sense that the technique cannot yet support the musicality you want to express, which often emerges but is sometimes a bit penalized by some "uncertainties". Anyway, keep studying and you will see that you will have great benefits, the sonata is very difficult... even Liszt, I was reading, ranks it among the 10 (or nearly) most difficult

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1945-le-sonate-di-beethoven/

ttw wrote:

I share the opinions already expressed; it seems to me that the third movement is technically the most immature one, in the sense that the technique cannot yet support the musicality you want to express, which emerges often but is sometimes a bit penalized by some "uncertainties". Anyway, keep studying and you will see that you will have great benefits; the sonata is very difficult... even Liszt, I was reading, ranks it among the 10 (or nearly) most difficult

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1945-le-sonate-di-beethoven/

Yes, I still have a lot of technical work to do, although I have already come up with some ideas on how to "loosen" certain passages and I hope they work. As far as difficulty is concerned, I agree with Liszt's ranking. Thank you

Pity about the audio, the performance seems very heartfelt to me and I agree regarding the agogics.
Bravo.

Piccinesco wrote:

Pity about the audio, the performance seems very heartfelt to me and I agree regarding the agogics. Bravo.

Thank you so much! It was recorded with a cell phone; it had also been recorded with the video camera but it turned out worse than this

Get (if you want) one of those environmental recorders (like a Zoom), they are excellent for these occasions.

Piccinesco wrote:

Get yourself (if you want) one of those environmental recorders (like a Zoom), they are excellent for these occasions.

Eh, I know, but I'll have to wait a little while because I recently switched from an upright piano to a grand piano and I still have to finish paying for it, so a microphone of that cost (even if we are talking about €100/200) would be quite a blow at this moment. And the purchase is already in the works, though; I will need it later

Bravo! As others have already said, the third movement is what suffers the most due to technical issues (the articulation is a bit sticky and there is little rotation from what I have seen and heard). On an interpretive level, however, I have the impression that you are imitating the interpretation of other pianists. When you study, forget that you have listened to other interpretations and create your own interpretive idea; you must make sure that the piece is yours and not others'. The great composers are very precise in writing their music and give us all the indications needed for interpretive purposes. You must be precise and faithful to those indications, but the nuances must belong to you. If you play with the musical ideas of other pianists in your head, yours will no longer be an interpretation; it will always be a simulation. You will master this concept with time, the premises are all good! Best wishes and happy music-making.

TheSimon wrote:

Well done! As others have already said, the third beat suffers the most due to technical issues (the articulation is a bit sticky and there is little rotation from what I have seen and heard). On an interpretive level, however, I have the impression that you are imitating the interpretation of other pianists. When you study, forget that you have listened to other interpretations and create your own interpretive idea; you must make sure that the piece is yours and not others'. Great composers are very precise in writing their music and give us all the indications needed for interpretive purposes. You must be precise and faithful to those indications, but the nuances must belong to you. If you play with the musical ideas of other pianists in your head, yours will no longer be an interpretation; it will always be a simulation. You will make this concept your own in time, all the premises are good! Best wishes and happy music.

Thank you very much, I will try to follow your advice

So what is missing is thinking about long phrases and creating within them alternating phases of tension and relaxation. You had started with the right relaxation, that bit of initial hesitation that is necessary, and I told myself I was stunned; but then everything became a bit static. In the first beat, you can feel that you were searching for a sound, but you were doing it while walking on eggshells! However, the effort is truly to be appreciated!! Compliments. But now, to move forward, you must let the music "breathe," and breathing is achieved with the sustain pedal: if my breath is shallow, the depth of the pedal will be too; conversely, pressing deep, creating a "pedal tremolo" and blending the harmonies.

The third beat is all too active: the key is the thumb of the right hand. You will see that you will be able to extract arpeggios by playing only with your thumb (the other notes must be active but present, gathered in the gesture of the hand) and within these, alternate tensions and relaxations, always with the aid of the pedal.

Remember that to make a performance "physiological," you must manage your energy well. If you have some Nutella and you put it all on one spot, you will need time to take more from the jar; if you use it all up, the game is different. What do I mean? It is always about providing the right tension and relaxation. If you start with little relaxation, physiologically you cannot reach great tensions; if you start very relaxed, you can create unimaginable tensions without even realizing it! The opposite is also true. Remember: after a great tension, a great relaxation follows; after an enormous accent, a pianissimo follows, even if it is not marked, but it is physiological. Look at the third beat especially from this perspective. But also the first beat: I think of the melody with the pinky finger; after an initial accent, the other notes are passive and, heresy, the weakest note is the downbeat. Yes, because the downbeat is not a point of tension, but of relaxation, of falling, of passivity; we gather energy on the upbeat. Then it depends on case by case, obviously!

francescochopin90 wrote:

So, what is missing is thinking about long phrases and creating within them alternating phases of tension and relaxation. You had started with the right relaxation, that bit of initial hesitation that is necessary, and I told myself I was stunned; but then everything became a bit static. In the first tempo, one can feel that you were searching for a sound, but you were doing it while walking on eggshells! However, the effort is truly to be appreciated!! Compliments. But now, to move forward, you must let the music "breathe," and breathing is achieved with the sustain pedal: if your breath is shallow, the depth of the pedal will be too; conversely, pressing deep, creating a "pedal tremolo" and blending the harmonies.

The third tempo is all too active: the keystone is the thumb of the right hand. You will see that you will be able to extract arpeggios by playing only with the thumb (the other notes must be active but present, gathered in the gesture of the hand) and within these, alternate tensions and relaxations, always with the aid of the pedal.

Remember that to make a performance "physiological," you must manage your energy well. If you have some Nutella and you put it all on one spot, you will need time to take more from the jar; if you spread it out, the game is different. What do I mean? It is always about providing the right tension and relaxation. If you start with little relaxation, physiologically you cannot reach great tensions; if you start very relaxed, you can create unimaginable tensions without even realizing it! The opposite is also true. Remember: after a great tension follows a great relaxation; after an enormous accent follows a pianissimo, even if it is not marked, because it is physiological. Look at the third tempo especially from this perspective. But also in the first tempo: I think of the melody with the pinky finger; after an initial accent, the other notes are passive and—heresy—the weakest note is the downbeat. Yes, because the downbeat is not a point of tension, but of relaxation, of falling, of passivity; we gather energy on the upbeat. Then it depends on case by case, obviously!

Thank you for the advice! This is something I have worked on and am still working on; I hope that within a few months I will be able to resume studying this sonata and be able to make use of all the changes I have made to my way of playing!