"The kids used to play but nobody listened to them"

I forgot the source: Corriere della Sera

http://www.corriere.it/politica/15_febbraio_24/lettera-padre-renzi-ragazzini-suonavano-distratto-buona-scuola-autogol-826e54d6-bbf1-11e4-9889-956e36696542.shtml

This is something that really hurts me!

In my opinion, it is unacceptable that something like this happens; I would have even interrupted the performance and reprimanded those people who only demonstrated rudeness; it feels like being back in the French courts where the musician played and the musician was heard.

come, come, if I had a euro for every cell phone I heard ringing during my and others' concerts... and this was NOT a concert, it was a PD meeting. Dad and little girl should adapt to reality and avoid making high-sounding proclamations

thallo wrote:

come on, if I had a euro for every cell phone I heard ringing during my and others' concerts... and this was NOT a concert, it was a PD [Democratic Party] meeting. Dad and little girl should face reality and avoid making high-sounding proclamations

I understand and I don't want to play the innocent since I know well what happens at political meetings but, then why invite an 'orchestra of young kids' who, obviously, feel frustrated by such behavior? It would have been just as good to make a classic mess and say goodnight, musicians. No?

Should they adapt to the rudeness?... I hope not.

Thallo, sorry, that WASN'T a concert?... It should be said to those who were playing (said beforehand)

thallo wrote:

come on, if I had a euro for every cell phone I heard ringing during my and others' concerts... and this was NOT a concert, it was a PD [Democratic Party] meeting. Dad and little girl should adapt to reality and avoid making high-sounding proclamations

So what is the point of an entire instrumental ensemble? They could even use a very simple stereo system... In fact, all the more reason that at a meeting like this one should be taken for granted (even if it never happens) that there are polite and respectful people; then obviously everything I am saying is a personal idea

Luca, ask your wife; she will probably know. This is called Narcissus syndrome :-)

Once upon a time, children were so preoccupied with Oedipus—in plain words, the generational clash. Now, instead, they are all narcissists because the expectations of an entire world weigh upon them, placed there mostly by their own parents.

A father complaining that politicians do not listen to his fourteen-year-old daughter playing the violin—I imagine poorly—is a father who clearly understands neither the political nor the musical world.

At 14, I played the flute in my town's marching band, and I didn't play badly. But I played in processions for the patron saint, where NO ONE ever deigned to listen to me. I did it for years and I understood its true value: it served to help me improve. I never had the pretension of making music; I didn't expect those to be "concerts"; they were group practices where I had fun and improved my technique.

If I had returned home in tears to my father, complaining that no one was listening to me, my father would have explained to me that that is just how the world is, and that I went there to play for myself, not for others.

This seems obvious to me.

And knowing the political world even a little, I am certain there will have been applause and compliments for that concert.

And, even more so, I am CERTAIN, ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, and BEYOND CERTAIN that the father's polemic has the ONLY purpose of criticizing the government's actions. I am CERTAIN, ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, and BEYOND CERTAIN that the father does not care AT ALL how his daughter's concert went. He did it only to criticize the new school reform. And indeed, the two events—the lack of attention to the concert and the school reform—should have no connection between them, but they do in the dear father's letter. Couldn't you have taken issue with politics in general? Or with the lack of musical culture? Or with the rudeness of individuals? Or with the little respect we have, I don't know, for children? No, he says that if it starts like this, then the reform of the good school will not go well...

The use of music and the poor, complaining, and spoiled fourteen-year-old, who takes violin lessons and expects the attention that audiences don't even give to professionals, is simply a rhetorical strategy intended to make us feel empathetic.

Your intervention is very harsh, Claudio and, as often happens, I think you are also right, but only also.

You are probably right - or at least I am as convinced of it as you are - that behind the father's controversy there is also much more than just the complaint that the politicians in charge did not listen to the music.

But there is a but!!!!

I have a son who, at 12 years old - you saw him in Milan - plays and is learning the clarinet in a band. He also plays and is learning the piano in a music school.

I know perfectly well - and he knows it as much as I do - that when he plays in a band, many people around him chatter, make noise and think of something else entirely and, apart from the "bigots" - like me naturally - no one is scandalized.

But if someone had made noise when he played Für Elise in a classical music concert for beginners... then his reaction would certainly have been different.

I know, now you will say that it's because...

But there are established practices that have become part of education and, in my opinion, it would be better not to lose them too much.

Returning to the father of that little girl, beyond his political ideas, I imagine he might be a "bigoted" classical music listener, having in some way encouraged his daughter to take that path and thus, like any "bigoted" classical music listener, it is likely that he felt resentful about this too. NO? :)

Claudio... I subscribe to what Daniele says: you are also right.

You are also right about the protagonism that today's kids are invested with (the fault of the parents). But that is already another discussion.

For me, the obvious point is that, from what I gather, the kids in question were not supposed to play as background music for a party. Period.

And from this arises the discussion about education, respect, and attention.

But, in general terms, it seems to me that you have too many certainties about the girl.

She would be whiny, spoiled... but come on! You don't know her any more than I do!... In doubt >>> she is the best girl in the world.

> the kids in question were not supposed to play as background music for a party. Period.

The statement almost always already contains the answer

A party is not a concert... so what expectations might one (and should) have? Exactly.

Gerardo wrote:

A party is not a concert...

Of course. But a party, at a given moment, can contain a concert.

The expectations one might have?... If one is an adult musician, perhaps none.

A young boy, perhaps he expects something.

Naivety?... Of course.

The fact is simple, it's true that there is never maximum attention, but since they were kids and above all they played (at least as far as I know) during the intervals, at the very least it is good manners to be silent. It's all a matter of good manners; I would like to see if even a single person in the audience who is talking and minding their own business would like to undergo the same treatment!

I think that one should always trace back to the reason why things happen in organizations. To take it to an extreme, what would be the reason for calling a youth orchestra if it is then taken for granted that nobody listens to them? From the discussions I read, it almost seems as if it were taken for granted that such a thing could seem normal. In my opinion, Claudio's argument about the band is not applicable. When you play with the local town band, you do so in the middle of a crowd of boors who are in the square only to make merry, and it is difficult to capture the attention of a town that is in the square only to buy trinkets at the stalls or cotton candy for their child. A different matter is a representative context, where there is the political world which should, in one way or another, set an example. Their behavior seems frustrating to me at the very least, and it makes me think that even at the end-of-year concert at the Chamber of Deputies, in reality, no one is actually interested, but they only do it because in that particular context it has now become customary for the orchestra to play at the beginning of the year; this also causes the incessant applause (which by this point are clearly fake) and the compliments, these also fake, from politicians to the orchestral musicians and the conductor to lose all meaning.

They were wrong. They are a mass of ignorant boors, regardless of whether there were children, teenagers, or the philharmonic orchestra in the hall.

I don't see how it is possible to look for excuses not to say that they are a mass of rude ignoramuses... Honestly, the video seems to speak for itself; what other excuses do we want to look for? In what way can one defend the indefensible?

I am usually a bit reluctant to intervene in this kind of topic, but given the disparate comments, I want to try to give my two cents.

For me, the episode should be commented on from at least four different points of view:

Human

Musical

Cultural

Political

Whichever way I look at it, I don't see anything good in this matter, which perfectly describes what Italy is like on average today.

Honestly and personally speaking, even if I were in the subway and heard a well-performed work of art, I would stop (IN SILENCE) to listen... precisely because of the desire to enjoy it.

I'll start from here to say that, in all my subjectivity, I find no love for beauty, there is no demonstration of a cultured people, there is no demonstration of humanity and respect for another individual's work, let alone for young people and, as is "right," everything is being politically instrumentalized.

A beautiful photograph, probably not even too sophisticated... it made itself, the "right" ingredients were enough.

This, however, is only my opinion; everyone is perfectly free to live and see things in their own way... of course.

Bravo Frank, I want to emphasize this: I agree with you 100%.

... and taking inspiration from Frank's post

In effect, this is the reason why when entering a church one should be quiet or when entering a mosque one should take off their shoes... even if being an atheist.

That is to say, one hears musicians playing Bach... and heckles over it? There is no need to impose it... staying silent and listening should already be something natural. Of course, for this education, sensitivity, and also culture are needed! The father's letter is then the icing on the cake....

Exactly, what do we want to discuss? I cannot, even if I try, find any extenuating circumstances. They are just big ignoramuses!

In this regard, when I was little they had told me a story about Beethoven; I don't know if it is true, but the story said that during a concert in court, Beethoven was not being listened to by the nobles, so he stood up and left. Now, I don't think it is a true story, but anyway, it is perhaps what should be done sooner or later!