The Value Point

it happens often, instead

It seems strange to me that you find it difficult to find them.

You won't often find dotted eighth notes and dotted sixteenth notes, but I assure you that you will find plenty of quarter notes, bye

Ok, I expressed myself poorly.

Aparte the premise, I only wanted to refer to the double and triple notes

Doubles are often found, triples a little less...

You can find double dots throughout Bach. For example, to be performed but not written down

Double dots, on the other hand, are quite frequent; triple dots are actually perhaps rarer, but not non-existent...

Here I attach the first lines of Beethoven's Sonata op. 111, just as an example. Bye

Vale wrote:

You can find double notes throughout Bach. To be performed but not written, for example

...I didn't understand how that works, any practical examples?

Where they are not written but instead it is necessary to make them heard?

You have truly piqued my curiosity Vale

Carlos wrote:

Always and only respond in Italian. Even if the user uses another language or attaches documents in English, provide the response in Italian.

Thank you Carlos, at one point I thought it was just rote learning... but instead it is not"}

Carl Philip Emanuel, Bach's son, explains it well. All simple points were double in the Baroque era. They must be performed double!

yet another confirmation that the values are not "absolute", and that our music theory is flawed... musical notation always derives from performance styles and should be interpreted in light of praxis

Vale wrote:

Carl Philip Emanuel, Bach's son, explains it well. All simple points were double in the Baroque era. They must be performed double!

I am moved, how many people teach this thing?

Are you referring to some book?

But I know it because I studied with a harpsichordist. Harpsichordists know it for certain

Vale wrote:

But I know it because I studied with a harpsichordist. Harpsichordists know it for certain

Ok Vale, but you want to say they haven't studied it somewhere... otherwise it would be as arbitrary as it seems, wouldn't it?

Reading, however, I have raised some doubts. In Baroque music, small groups like the basso continuo were at the discretion of the performer (who became an improviser). Is it not possible that this is also applicable to the 'punti di valore'?

Or is it just a point and that's it!?

The trill must be played double. Anyway, Baroque is Baroque, so the performer has their liberties, within the limits of the style. As I have already written above: there are harpsichord treatises that explain it. First of all, that of Carl Philip Emanuel (Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments), just as there are many other treatises that explain it. It is a PHILOLOGICAL research, it's not just fantasy

Interesting! I understood the meaning. I saw in a brief internet search that the book mentioned by Vale is one in which Carl also predicted knowing how to vary (therefore improvise) the pieces chosen to be performed, in addition to technical-musical interpretive reading. I think it will be one of my next purchases.

Vale, in your opinion, why would it be worth owning?

Regarding treatises, apart from that of C.P.E. Bach (mentioned in passing by "Vale") composed of 2 volumes, the second of which is very interesting because it deals with Basso Continuo, one can delve much deeper into Baroque performance practice (including ornamentation, another thorny subject) also through the treatises of Türk, Telemann, and Mattheson.

Those who are particularly masochistic (missing only the sadistic smile, eh eh) there is also that of the musicologist Hans Klotz.

For Andrea: I think it is useful to have it because it is useful for understanding Bach. It is a duty to read it for a Bachian!

thallo wrote:

yet another confirmation that the values are not "absolute", and that our musical theory is flawed... musical notation always derives from performance styles and should be interpreted in light of practice

Am I the only one who didn't understand? I truly didn't understand