Whole tone scale — Pianoconcerto Forum

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August 21, 2013, 09:41

I was reading on the piston (see attachment) but I'm having trouble making sense of it... I had already opened a discussion about the third degree in the past

http://www.pianoconc...il-terzo-grado/

But here the discussion seems to connect with the whole tone scale including augmented triads, which from what I understand are typical of the third degree in the minor scale.

I was practicing the whole tone scale, starting from C because it's easier

C D E# G# A# C

Deriving the chords built on the third degree, I can't make sense of it... I was expecting 6 similar chords...

I didn't understand a damn thing

Ideas?

AleGozzo

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Posts: 355
City: milano

August 21, 2013, 14:04

urrrgh truly incomprehensible

the previous part doesn't help?

Salomon

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August 21, 2013, 15:02

Understanding the list of triads and seeing if they are truly augmented would already be a great success ... something is missing to me, which is probably why I won't include the discussion about the third degree ...

Dante

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Posts: 275

August 21, 2013, 15:07

Salomon, starting from

do re mi fa# sol# la# do

- do mi sol# (III of a-)

- re fa# la# (III of b-)

- mi sol# do enharmonically si# (III of c#-)

etc.

Salomon

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August 21, 2013, 15:11

Ok Dante, now it's clearer ...but the pains come after the mi. Starting from fa#, what would you do?

AleGozzo

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Posts: 355
City: milano

August 21, 2013, 15:25

so, in a whole tone scale, for example the one you indicated, considering triads by 3rd intervals we only have 3 augmented triads: C+ (C E G#); D+ (D F# A#); E+ (E G# B#). if you go further in the scale, you only find inversions of these 3 triads.

now, suppose you are in a minor key and want to use the III with a dominant function: the III in minor does not have the leading tone (Eb G Bb), so the 5th must be raised to have the leading tone (Eb G B), thus creating an augmented triad.

we have seen that an augmented triad can refer back to a whole tone scale, because indeed augmented 5th chords are contained within this scale.

that being said (hoping it is correct), I have no idea where Piston wants to go with this

Salomon

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August 21, 2013, 15:28

Ok AleGozzo, I'm going to say something idiotic.

How do you consider (or should they be considered) for example the triads F# A# C and A# C E?

AleGozzo

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Posts: 355
City: milano

August 21, 2013, 15:29

are you experienced with pianoroll?

to avoid getting confused with enharmonics, I am attaching an image

AleGozzo

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Posts: 355
City: milano

August 21, 2013, 15:31

F# A# C

it is not a triad by 3rd intervals.

watch out for enharmonics

considering the scale, the 3rd interval triad built on F# is:

F# A# D (D+ in 1st inversion)

JazzMania

Member

Posts: 116

August 22, 2013, 10:51

AleGozzo wrote:
fa# la# do
non è una triade per intervallo di 3a.

Pensa ad un bel F#b5 aggiungici un bel mi (la settima) ... guarda che bel colore è saltato fuori. Ecco che la scala esatonale contiene un bel po' di Jazz

Salomon

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August 26, 2013, 18:38

Ok, you convinced me

AleGozzo

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Posts: 355
City: milano

August 26, 2013, 21:58

"considering the scale, the x 3e triad built on F# is:

F# A# D (D+ in 1st inversion)"

I realized that this indication can be misleading if referred to a whole-tone scale. Do you mean "by thirds" with the principle of "one note yes, one no", as chords are built in a "normal" scale.

do (ok) re (no) mi (ok) fa# (no) sol# (ok) la# (no) etc