Analysis

Frank wrote:

I hadn't seen, we overlapped for a bit... I'll take a look

that one was just to identify the chords that unequivocally belong to the key of F major; I am certain you won't have any trouble identifying them;

as I was saying, the tasty ones are the others ;-)

Isn't the third of the second line a minor IV? (In your hypothesis Dr)

Egidio wrote:

Isn't the third of the second line a minor IV? (In your hypothesis Dr)

But it must be related to the one after it.

The first fixed [chord] starting from the Doc structure is the last chord of the first line V/II (fifth of the second degree)

Egidio wrote:

Isn't the third of the second line a minor IV? (In your hypothesis Dr)

yesss, I would have interpreted it that way, as a modal interchange: IV "borrowed" from the parallel scale (a term which, moreover, I have never particularly loved).

Frank wrote:

The first fix, starting from the structure of C, is the last chord of the first line V/II (fifth of the second degree)

yes, there I see a secondary dominant (built on the VI of F): V of II.

I would say IV VII, followed by III VI in progression

but these B-flats? those are pesky :-)

So for the first draft:

-line 1: I | ? | III | V/II

-line 2: II | II | IV- | VII

-line 3: III | VI | II | V

-line 4: III VI | II ? | II | V

-line 5: I | ? | III | ?

-line 6: II | II | ? | ?

-line 7: III | VI | ? | ?

-line 8: III VI | II V | I | II V

Egidio wrote:

I would say IV VII, followed by III VI in progression

Me too, although I have always thought of something curious (and a bit twisted): in modal interchange, there is a tendency to replace an chord with the equivalent degree of the parallel scale, preferably with the same function; which works for all degrees except for the seventh (which in the natural minor scale does not have a function exactly corresponding to the VII of the major scale). For example, in DØ G7 C∆ we can derive the DØ from the minor II, maintaining the function of preparing the V.

But thinking that F-7 Bb7 C∆ originates from F∆ BØ C∆ is difficult (not impossible, but let's say unlikely in jazz or pop harmony).

Line 4 convinces me very little; A7 smells like a V of D-7, which is the second of C major, it touches the fifth... precisely G7, and that G-7 in my opinion is a V-, which is also used in classical contexts, all cadencing to I (F major)

My hypothesis is that the bVII7 can indeed be interpreted as a pure interchange, but also as a continuation of the iv minor, with a simple bass movement, somewhat like what happens in a tritone substitution. In other words, if we keep Bb- instead of Eb7, the piece does not undergo substantial changes.

Frank wrote:

Line 4 convinces me very little; A7 smells like a V of D-7, which is the second of C major, it touches the fifth... precisely G7 and that G-7 in my opinion is a V-, which is also used in classical contexts when cadencing to I (F major)

Sure, but a bit too refined ;-)

And what if it were simply a V of VI?

Oh my god, I can't remember how to attach a file anymore... old age is a rogue...

DrJellyfish wrote:

And what if it were simply a V of the VI?

And what if it were ... "what"?

DrJellyfish wrote:

Oh my god, I don't remember how to attach a file anymore... old age is a rogue...

Full editor

Frank wrote:

And what if it were ... "what"?

A7 D-7

Grazie Frank (beata gioventù)! La butto lì:

The days of wine and roses analisi.pdf

DrJellyfish wrote:

A7 D-7

Exactly, if it is the same thing, it is a tonicization

Perhaps if I simplify it like this, I make the idea clearer (let's imagine that the original was like this, poor Henry, and that the changes were made subsequently):

DrJellyfish wrote:

Thanks Frank (blessed youth)! I'll just throw this out there:

So the fourth line is square.. as well as the second, which has already been discussed.