Coherence in a musical piece: when? Why? Does it make sense to talk about it?

Frank wrote:

I have a great curiosity. What can a manual like Kent Wheeler Kennan's orchestration one be used for?

To learn orchestration technique ... I imagine it was a rhetorical question...

The "researchers" drive me crazy, a fine metaphor

http://www.ilmattino.it/primopiano/cronaca/opera_arte_buco_muro_muratore_stucca/notizie/508602.shtml

Shark wrote:

The "researchers" drive me crazy, quite a metaphor

http://www.ilmattino.it/primopiano/cronaca/opera_arte_buco_muro_muratore_stucca/notizie/508602.shtml

I haven't read the article, but if the work wasn't on display in a theater or an art exhibition....he did the right thing

... it certainly says a lot about certain experiments

Shark wrote:

The "researchers" drive me crazy, quite a metaphor

http://www.ilmattino.it/primopiano/cronaca/opera_arte_buco_muro_muratore_stucca/notizie/508602.shtml

muhauhhauhhahahuuauuauhuahuauhahau beh "the artist" didn't take it personally

Shark wrote:

The "researchers" drive me crazy, a nice metaphor

Interesting but ... what does it have to do with the topic?

RedScharlach wrote:

Interesting but ... what does it have to do with the topic?

It relates to coherence

Try giving a hole in the wall to a plasterer... and see what happens. Translate the concept into music ...

Shark wrote:

Try giving a hole in the wall to a plasterer... and see what happens. Translate the concept into music ...

???

As always, terms have a meaning:

http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/incoerenza/

In the proper sense, lack of coherence, of cohesion between the parts of a body

a. fig. Lack of logical connection (in ideas, in speech), of uniformity (e.g., in style), of consistency in one's own statements or way of proceeding, of fidelity to one's own principles, and similar. In psychopathology, incoherence of ideas, disorder of ideation, typical of schizophrenia, characterized by the succession of ideas without any continuity or logical connection.

In effect, someone was talking about STYLE

For this topic and those indicated by Bianca

Bianca wrote:

just to refresh the memory

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/2725-integrazione-accostamento-contaminazione-inflenza

http://www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/2504-elaborazione-narrativita-e-conseguenzialita-nella-musica/

i think it is also very useful to take a look at Webern's notes, The Path to the New Music; it punctually answers many questions raised. Clearly, it refers to his aesthetics... which has (obviously) a high level of credibility.

Frank wrote:

For this topic and those indicated by Bianca

i think it is also very useful to take a look at Webern's notes, The Path to the New Music; it punctually answers many questions raised. Clearly, it refers to his aesthetics... which (obviously) has a high level of credibility.

thanks for the suggestion Frank, I wasn't aware of it.

I found it here

http://archive.org/stream/antonwebernthepa007300mbp/antonwebernthepa007300mbp_djvu.txt

as soon as I have time I'll read it.

Does it follow Schoenberg's ideas in some way?

Bianca wrote:

Does it somehow follow Schoenberg's ideas?

i dispute regarding coherence, obviously

Bianca wrote:

Does it somehow follow Schoenberg's ideas?

Both refer back to Goethe's idea of the Urpflanze: the parts of a musical piece are related to each other in a coherent whole, just as in a plant the roots are related to the trunk and together with the branches to the leaves, to the flowers, and so on. The whole forms an ensemble in which every part has a specific function and is at the same time determined by the context.

Bianca wrote:

Does it somehow follow Schoenberg's ideas?

Webern's music is very different from that of Schoenberg and Berg, especially in the approach to composition, even though the three belong to the same school. Therefore, the implications are very different compared to Schoenberg, who, for example, also had to exemplify a new system (see Op. 31)... and besides, he had his own needs.

The document deserves to be known and, above all, supported by the analysis of pieces from Webern's own repertoire.