Lieder: Transposition

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Frank wrote:

The plural of Lied is Lieder;)

But when writing in Italian, aren't foreign words written in the singular...?

Oracolo wrote:

But when writing in Italian, aren't foreign words written in the singular...?

I don't quite understand your question: I am not aware of this rule regarding the necessary translation of foreign words into the singular.

I believe that both ways should be used: Lied if it refers to a single composition, Lieder if it refers to a number greater than one composition (for example: cycle of Lieder, such as Schubert's "Winterreise"). I also recall that in German, nouns are always written with the first letter capitalized.

More than a rule, various words that have become common usage are used in the singular: i file, i server, etc.

In my opinion, Lied/Lieder still belong to the high culture tradition that has preserved the original differentiation between plural/singular

DiesIrae wrote:

More than a rule, various words that have become common usage are used in the singular: files, servers, etc.

According to me, Lied/Lieder still belong to the scholarly tradition that has preserved the original differentiation between plural/singular.

In recent years (thanks to the Internet and its speed), language usage has worsened significantly, starting with Italian itself. As for the invasion of English terms, these are particularly prone to being distorted in various ways due to the functional use of this language in context. Then there are Italian neologisms derived from English words: for example (ridiculous!) "applodare" (from upload).

However, we are talking about Lieder, therefore a great poetic and musical tradition, in which the texts of supreme poets, such as Goethe, have been used; the genre itself invites us to a more appropriate use of languages.

Does anyone know, apart from the transcription, if there are also recordings in other languages? I don't know, maybe listening to Schubert's Lieder in Italian would help me. A crazy request? Enlighten me, please.

Lestofante wrote:

Does anyone know, apart from the transport, if there are also recordings in other languages? I don't know, maybe listening to Schubert's Lieder in Italian would help me. A crazy request? Enlighten me, please.

Frankly, I have never heard them, and I must say I hope they don't exist. Aside from the fact that they are lieder based on poetic texts and therefore the translation would itself ruin the original poetry, but the music was written for a German text, and the practice of translating (especially opera works, to be honest) which was in vogue until the '60s/'70s if I am not mistaken, has fortunately been lost... The Germans sang “Der macht der Schiksal” (The force of destiny) and we sang Lohengrin and Carmen in Italian... The best thing, in my opinion, is to read the translation before listening to a good vocalist in another language, but to listen to them in the original language.

as far as I know, there are no Italian translations of Lieder. If I'm not mistaken, there are songs of various types, certainly including arias, that circulate in different versions; the famous Ave Maria by Schubert, for example, was originally based on German texts, and not the German text of the Ave Maria, and despite this, versions in Italian and Latin circulate (and perhaps even in other languages, I don't know).

Lestofante, if you want we can do a commented listening together :-)

thallo wrote:

as far sapere a me, there are no Italian translations of Lieder.

I must unfortunately contradict you ... I saw with my own eyes Schubert's "La bella molinara" ... rhythmic version by God knows who

...maybe it would have been better Mugnaia ... ? ...

how cool, I want it! ahahah

the famous Lied "Gretchen am Spinnrade" from Goethe's Faust is translated into Italian as "Margherita al Mulinello" and you can find it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNNEKV65yNA

Jokes aside, I don't think they exist.

F. Schubert Lieder and choral works, translated by Stefania Santandrea, I saggi, Moby Dick.

It won't be easy to find it, but one can try. There is the original German and the Italian translation alongside all of Schubert's vocal works (except for the Masses, obviously). A good book is also that of Mario Bortolotto, Introduzione al Lied Romantico, published by Adelphi. It does not include texts but is useful for understanding.

Open content (youtube)

I am reporting this other topic, maybe it can help

www.pianoconcerto.it/forum/index.php?/topic/1098-metodologia-dellanalisi