Workshops

Laboratory - Orchestra 2013

87 replies 9,613 views

Started by

Frank

Moderator

Member

Reply 41 by Ludovica

Posts
298

Your variations, Raffaele, are a bit like a diesel engine; they start running well from the tenth onwards... in the previous ones, it seems to me that the schematic nature of the (variation) criteria is too evident and declared, or at least prevails over the musicality of the piece; from the tenth onwards, they run well.

I've read a few posts; I wouldn't recommend orchestrating the piece for an orchestra because the theme is too short and tailored to the guitar... the texture should be a bit broader, and the work of arranging for other instruments will probably require many changes from you...

Member

Reply 42 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)
Zedef wrote:

If there is a descending bass from tonic to dominant, chromatic or not, it is a chaconne and not a passacaglia, at least from a historical point of view.

Question: is the G on the 2nd line at bar 10 a sharp? same for the F at 12 and so on (26, 28, 34, 36, etc..)

Ok, I am not prepared regarding the fact of it being a passacaglia. I will defer to what you say. In any case, I will explain later why I made this error in placement.

As for the G at bar 10, it is written as G# (G# Bass), so since there are no natural signs, it is indeed a sharp.

Since it is not in the key signature, it would be Natural, but this seemed obvious to me.

Member

Reply 43 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)
Ludovica wrote:

Your variations, Raffaele, are a bit like a diesel engine; they start running well from the tenth onwards... in the previous ones, it seems to me that the schematic nature of the (variation) criteria is too evident and declared, or at least prevails over the musicality of the piece; from the tenth onwards, they run well.

I have read a few posts; I do not recommend orchestrating the piece for an orchestra because the theme is too short and tailored to the guitar... the texture should be a bit broader, and the arrangement work, being organic in other respects, will probably require many changes from you...

Perhaps it is not clearly readable that the first measures are on fortissimo

The ninth measure is pp

I think this may be sufficient to provide a certain gradualness

Member

Reply 44 by Zedef

Posts
315
City
.
raffaeleb wrote:

Regarding the G at measure 10, it is written as G# (Low G#), so since there are no natural signs, it is indeed a sharp.

Furthermore, since it is not in the clef, it is Natural, but this seemed obvious to me.

I was talking about the second quarter (second line), not the bass.. same for the other points.

Member

Reply 45 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)

I was taught that within a measure, if I put a G sharp in any octave, the sharp is maintained for all notes within that measure at any pitch.

Member

Reply 46 by Eagle

Posts
264

Congratulations Raffaele for testing yourself with this procedure; as a first attempt, I must say you have framed the issue correctly. As for Ludovica's comment, I don't think the problem is only related to the dynamics... I also find the latter ones more pleasant.

Dlet's say that perhaps it can be felt that in the first ones you probably had "other" difficulties

Member

Reply 48 by Eagle

Posts
264
raffaeleb wrote:

Do you like the latest ones?... from which measure?

D
Let's say from 12 onwards; to tell you the truth, I think 12 is perhaps the most successful because every variation follows a certain criterion, but they are almost always conducted schematically... whereas in 12 less.

Moderator

Reply 49 by Frank

Posts
3,838
City
-

With great delay, I have taken a look at your variations Raffaele; I won't comment on the playability because I don't deal much with the guitar and have never been very interested in its technical aspects. Since you are also a guitarist (if I remember correctly), I hope they are playable

You have already received several indications; regarding the structure, I think you have framed the subject well, although the occasional schematicism is even quite fun...

If I may, in my opinion, you should work a little more on the transitions between one variation and another and not be pedantic in applying chosen criteria.

The closing seems truncated to me; even in variations, it is possible to write an introduction and a coda. In your case, while the initial chords can also serve as an introduction (and Theme)... I feel the need for a coda.

Another thing, some harmonic connections do not enthuse me.

These are the very first things off the top of my head...

It's up to you whether to make changes to this piece or to take it as a lesson for the next round

Member

Reply 50 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)
Frank wrote:

With great delay, I have taken a look at your variations Raffaele; I won't comment on the playability because I don't deal much with the guitar and I have never been very interested in its technical issues. Since you are also a guitarist (if I remember correctly), I hope they are playable.

I do play the guitar and I think it is quite playable with a few minutes of study.... some passages even at first sight.

Frank wrote:

You have already received several indications; in terms of structure, I think you have framed the subject well, despite the schematic nature which at times is also fun...

If I may, in my opinion, you should work a little more on the transitions between one variation and another and not be pedantic in applying chosen criteria.

It's not to make excuses, but it is my first variation. Transition in a dynamic sense or specifically as an elaboration?

Frank wrote:

The closing seems truncated to me; even in variations, it is possible to write an introduction and a coda. In your case, while the initial chords can also serve as an introduction (and Theme)... I feel the need for a coda.

I should have done them but I neglected them a bit and I regret it. Aaah, my haste to deliver.....

Another thing, some harmonic connections do not enthuse me.

These are the very first things [noted] immediately...

It's up to you whether to make changes to this piece or to take it as a lesson for the next one.

I will add the ending and after understanding what is meant by transition, I will change that too.

Sorry Frank, but I have difficulty with terminology

Moderator

Reply 51 by Frank

Posts
3,838
City
-
raffaeleb wrote:

It's not to make excuses, but it is my first variation. Fade out in a dynamic sense or as actual development?

Fade-out is not solely at the service of variations, and what I mean is that in your piece, the criteria are born and die within the single variation in a sharp and unequivocal way, so that between one panel and the next there are sharp caesuras. To fade means to hide or dose that effect. There are many ways to do it; it's not said that it must always be done, but 15 out of 15 nothing... is a bit much. Consider that in this sense, the final truncation is coherent

Member

Reply 52 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)

I think that in this sense the final truncation is consistent

Ok I understood perfectly. Anyway, in a few days I will explain the criteria that led me to make these choices

But first, I want to collect some more criticism

Member

Reply 55 by Zaccaria

Posts
105
City
Non disponibile

I took a quick look, from what I understood of the original piece you exploited the descending chromatic line... I am not practiced in these procedures but even from the perspective of the old diploma exam (old system), isn't it a bit lacking as an element of adherence?

I know this is not an exam and mine is not intended to be a criticism, it was just to know... since I will be interested

Anyway, I like your piece and I didn't think that all those notes could be played with the guitar

Member

Reply 56 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)

Ok I will start revealing daily some of the procedures that I have applied

Member

Reply 57 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)

The 13th variation resumes the triplet motif, adapted to my liking.

I did not want to take that motif with that rhythmicity for reasons that I will reveal later.

Member

Reply 58 by raffaeleb

Posts
213
City
Modica (Rg)

Then I took a look at Beethoven's 32 variations for piano. Some others came out, which I didn't publish anyway because they were too guitar-like, as I think they are difficult to orchestrate.

Member

Reply 60 by Zaccaria

Posts
105
City
Non disponibile

Debate?

Try to make a single post where you describe everything... the sentences seem put together in such a way that I can't even correlate them.

I only understood that you exploited a rhythmic element... what is there to debate?

I'm asking... just so I know what you expect

Log in to participate