Restoration of Schimmel 208 piano - Hammer selection

Once someone told me that I wasn't used to double escapement!!! In reality, the piano was a piece of junk; one day I'll have to organize a call to Staffelli from Striscia la notizia, with a perfectly tuned piano!! Just like they do with plumbers and electricians

Dafterward, I would have a technical friend with many years of experience and a concert pianist friend from the Busoni come out from behind the door; it would be fun, I promise I'll do it ....

The problem with pianos (and this is where technicians exert leverage....) is that it is all invisible and, therefore, debatable, even in aspects that are indisputably objective...

Up to a certain point, however....

Of course, but they always have the last word and/or the "Europiano" of the turn defending them...

@Fra

There are work rhythms and delivery times. If for a 5-month job the employer wants it commissioned in one month, something must be sacrificed; there are no stories, excuses, or programmer skill involved. Another variable is payment... If I have to make a website for 500 euros, I certainly won't start doing search engine optimization, I won't standardize it to W3C, I won't handle errors, and I won't start optimizing the graphics to favor loading speed. These are things that all programmers worthy of the name know how to do or should at least know how to do. It is not a question of skill; it is a question of time and compensation, and these things are strictly correlated. If they pay me 500 euros, I certainly won't spend 5 months on a software to make it perfect, and the same goes if I need 5 months to make that software but they only give me 1.

In any case, we have differing opinions because I never set out to judge a colleague.

Setting aside personal opinions which I respect even if I do not share them, it seems to me that the discussion is becoming sterile, devoid of interesting insights; in the last posts I have read only animosity towards technicians who in one way or another did not satisfy you and words, perhaps too bold, about Abel which for me remains a good manufacturer of mechanisms. I believe that everyone has understood your position by now, and I consider it useless to continue in this vein. If there are no more interesting things to say, I would close the discussion here.

In effect, TheSimon's argument is flawless, but I wonder and I ask: why must art be subject to the mechanisms of vile money?

No malice, on the contrary, I pity them because poor things they do their job, perhaps for thirty years, without having understood anything, repeating operations passed down from grandparents or fathers, without passion and committing gross errors.

They do not provide a good service to music, and often customers have to spend twice to redo a totally wrong restoration, as has happened to users of this forum.

Regarding web development, don't come telling me about it; by now Italy is full of web designers, graphic designers, etc.... who are forced to undersell themselves to bring home a bit of work, so you make a 500 euro website because if you propose it for 600 euros the client finds another one who will do it instead of you for 400 euros, very simple.

Regarding Abel components, I don't think like you and as you may have understood, I don't even share your ideas, perhaps still tied to a more academic rather than professional context.

I agree with closing the discussion here.

I am not a piano technician, but I know of established technicians with 40 years of experience behind them who also use Abel hammers; I have played on pianos with Abel hammers and they were beautiful, and certainly in my life it's not like I've only tried a couple of pianos... Anyway, to each their own, if you don't like them, you don't like them, and honestly, I don't even care to change your mind, but I want to share my own experience.

Regarding the rest of the discussion, my ideas are instead directly linked to the professional context: I have worked in the IT field since I was 13, even carrying out projects of a certain weight during high school for the National Institute of Nuclear Physics after winning a competition for an internship, so I am not exactly a novice as it seems you want to make me out to be... Anyway... Pretending I misunderstood... Continuously in the company where I work, jobs are commissioned that must be made available in very little time and, by necessity, there isn't enough time to carry out the various debugging and optimization phases. If you can then deliver management software of some few hundred thousand lines of code perfectly intact and functional in every part in just two days... Well, congratulations! Even if I wouldn't believe it even if I saw it. Personally, if someone commissioned a website from me today for 500 euros, the first thing I would do is start laughing, then I would get back under the covers and stay home to sleep. With my clients, I have a completely transparent and honest relationship; I explain step by step exactly the difference between a 500-euro website made in two days and the same website made in a month—in the end, who knows how everyone gets convinced; this thing has allowed me over the past years to always have excellent volumes of well-paid work. The fact that I then chose to work "under a boss" (so to speak, since in my department I run the show) was determined by the fact that I was tired of working at night too! As a core principle, however, things done well must be paid for and require time. Returning to the example of websites, spending 500 euros to make a corporate site without the necessary phases involving search engine optimization is completely useless; it's 500 euros thrown in the trash. Many new clients turned to me after having paid for years amounts in the order of 2000 euros per month to be visible on Google because of a site that wasn't 500 euros, but as much as 3000. Obviously, my consultancy was not in the 500-euro range, but now they see the results and have understood that the more you spend, the less you spend; they paid off the website within a few months—this time functional, W3C certified, and SEO optimized—without paying search engines a single cent. Therefore, the argument you are making does not hold up in reality, or perhaps where you are it works as you say, but here, definitely not. If a client comes to me and offers 500 euros to make a site because they had already found someone else who would do it for the same price, as has happened to me, I advise against it by explaining what having a 500-euro site entails; I push them to ask what is offered for 500 euros, and if they insist, I tell them that I will make the same site not for 500 but for 300 euros (time required about one day of work), reminding them that they are throwing their money away. If they are still not convinced at that point, I inform them that they can quite easily go and have the site made for 500 euros by whomever they like. Usually, after not even a year, they come back with their tails between their legs. The point is that I know how I work and I don't undersell myself; you might say I do it because I am in a family situation that allows me to; it's true, I always have a roof over my head and a plate of pasta, but the price of my work is decided by me, not by others on my behalf.

Absit invidia verbis: I would like to try to understand the sense and the reason for this sudden change of tone in our discussion.

We were talking about piano components, while now I read extensive apologies regarding programming and programmers.

I find it curious, to say the least.

As far as my own person is concerned, as I have already suggested on other occasions, I have no connection of interest with Abel, nor with Renner, nor with this or that trusted technician; I have repeatedly refused to offer "private guidance"...

My conscience is clear and my nerves are steady.

I sincerely find, allow me to express my impression, that the arguments brought forth in these recent interventions are somewhat naively tricky, in defense of the category, not to say that they bear traces of a certain corporatist aroma with an old flavor, the consequences of which we are paying for in these hard years of crisis.

I believed that this forum was also here to offer a free (and polite) exchange of ideas and experiences among enthusiasts who, often, encounter unlucky hands regarding piano maintenance, devoid of any right or protection, because it is always the technician who has the last word, even if profusely and unlimitedly paid.

However, if I am wrong, if all technicians with an important name never commit obscenities, if a company with a turnover is, regardless, superlative in quality, please correct me.

For now, I don't think I have to justify myself to anyone regarding the reasons for what I am being attacked for, since Fra treated me publicly like a shop boy without knowing absolutely anything about me, my professional activity, my background, or my training; however, to avoid fueling controversy—if he first tried to act superior, now I will do so in a positive way this time, avoiding responding to him further since I have nothing to prove to anyone, those who know me well know what I am made of, anyway... I would like to know what your professional activity would be... Out of curiosity.

I can understand that you were burned by the performances of certain technicians which is clearly evident they did not leave you satisfied, but I would like to understand with what qualification you attack other technicians, even labeling them as thieves, which is a very heavy accusation (a question occurs to me spontaneously: why did you call them to work, but above all, why did you pay them if you were convinced you were being robbed? The controversy following the fact is easy; the difficult part is speaking up when it's time, asking the technician to stay glued to the instrument until they achieve the required result, obviously also compatible with the quality of the instrument, otherwise they won't see a dime. This leads to the second question, a corollary to the first: couldn't you fix the problems yourselves, since from the way you speak it seems to me that you are well-prepared? Before finding Paolo's number again, several technicians came to me who presented themselves to tune the instrument with a chromatic tuner! I didn't call anyone else and started tuning it myself, wasting whole days; the piano didn't have my sound image, but at least to my ears it sounded in tune!). Then you took on a piano parts factory head-on... I am truly curious, because if you know how to solve Abel's problems, I invite you to offer yourselves, call them, and get paid handsomely, because in this topic, it is worth clarifying, you are not talking about subjectively preferring the sound of a Renner hammer over an Abel one (which is absolutely legitimate and not harmful to anyone), here you said between the lines that Abel hammers aren't worth a sh...t (which is much more serious!), and it isn't serious for you because you run no risk, it is serious for us because we are the ones who have to answer for what is said here on the forum.

So, one thing is stating your own opinion, another thing is offending and defaming, and if offending and defaming becomes inevitable, I would like to understand from which pulpit the sermon is coming.

What are your credentials in the field of piano technology? How many hammers have you changed? How many have you built? How many pianos have you regulated, tuned, and voiced? Because let's be clear, anyone reading the discussion you have held so far expects to speak with people of the trade who have dealt with at least a few hundred pianos.

Faintly, even Pianoexpert (who asked me to read this discussion, and I check this section very little since I know he is here) intervened requesting less harmful interventions, but it seems to me that things are not changing here, so what are we supposed to do? I don't understand why it is always necessary to have "forced removals" in here... If a moderator gives you a warning, why don't you ever listen to them? Then it ends up as usual: if users get banned, we are always the ones who get the sh...t!

I apologize, but I completely dissociate myself from this unexpected drop in the style of this discussion.

We have reached the point of: "who are you? what do you do?". Scandalous and on the verge of the surreal.

It resembles the famous scene with Gian Maria Volonté where he attempts to manipulate the poor passerby with an unsettling: "BUT WHO DO YOU VOTE FOR?"

In Italy, there will be much professionalism and many technicians devoted to their profession, but what is certainly lacking is education, a sense of reality, of proportion and, above all, of freedom.

Have a good day

I have a thousand model mechanisms that I play with every day. Isn't that enough?

Look Dave, I don't want to ban you but I beg you to leave voluntarily. We are facing the classic scene of the ox calling the donkey horned. Having been corrected several times by two moderators, you speak of a loss of style after having defamed a hammer factory for about ten posts and classifying people who have worked as thieves, I would say this is surreal...

If one imposes oneself before a thought, one must have arguments based on something to be able to defend it, and you are proving to me that you don't have any. In order to avoid appearing as the bad guy in this situation, please leave this forum peacefully.

Thank you and have a good day too.

I make the same request to you, Fra. Without any resentment, I don't believe this is the appropriate space for your way of handling certain topics and treating people. Peaceful arguments can only be pursued if one feels on equal footing, certainly not if one feels superior to others.

I also send you my best wishes for a peaceful future.

What we are "going through," believe me, every person forms their own opinion independently, without any need to go and tell them.

I sincerely do not know what I might have said or done and I haven't noticed any particular reprimands, or, perhaps, I didn't understand them.

I am not a forum user and my life is very far from computer screens. I apologize.

In this discussion, I only advised buying original Renner spare parts. Nothing more from my perspective, and it seems to me that I have always motivated my impressions with real data, which was also confirmed by other friends who joined us due to dissatisfaction with "x" products. Defamation is something else entirely.

Now, however, it is evident that we were under "special surveillance": I am very sorry. The intentions, at least on my part, were very different and do not deserve this treatment.

Anyway, it is known... no prophet in his own land...

Post Scriptum

Not that it matters, except on a behavioral analysis level, but another moderator of this forum had even honored me with truly exquisite and kind compliments. For me, this whole situation is a truly unpleasant surprise.

Dave, to stay here in peace you just have to listen to the moderators when they correct you and respect netiquette, that's it... Nothing complicated. On the street there are police officers; if a police officer tells you to turn right, do you turn? Here, the thing doesn't change: if a moderator tells you to turn, you must turn. End of story.

It doesn't seem to me that anyone said to turn anywhere; the situation seemed peaceful to me.

I don't know where this sudden outburst of anger from you is coming from.

Do you perhaps think I am someone else whom you have already banned previously? If so, what can I say... I'm sorry.

I repeat, the last time a moderator of this forum spoke to me directly was to tell me that they saw a noble soul in me, complete with a subsequent musical dedication. The rest is new to me.

On the first page I read two posts by pianoexpert in which he corrects you.

But now I have to go to sleep otherwise I won't wake up to go to work. Goodnight everyone!

Rather than taking it back, I believed that the matter (that is, the misunderstanding, the "quid pro quo" that had occurred) had been clarified.